[truthseeker]

Those who hate PHEV, please don't post in this thread. No reason to.

I need a mid-size PHEV available in the US that I can drive in town on electric only drivetrain but that can be used as a regular gasoline vehicle for long road trips without having to plan my route ahead of time and having to exclude certain scenic drives due to the lack of charging infrastructure along the way. I need the electric-only range to be at least 40 miles.

My ideal vehicle is the Li L9, but, of course, it's not available in the US. I need the cargo space to have at least 45 cubic feet behind the second row seats. I don't care about the 3rd row either way.

Is there anything remotely close to what I'm looking for? I've run out of options. One vehicle I stumbled upon the other day was the Lincoln Aviator PHEV, but the trim I would consider costs north of $85,000, which is not something I'm prepared to pay for a PHEV with rather short EV-only range at this time. However, it's torque is pretty good, allowing it to do 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, which is very respectable for a gasoline vehicle of that size. I think the Kia Telluride PHEV could fit the bill (price-wise), but it doesn't exist (yet).

Kia Sorento PHEV could be a candidate, but the electric-only range is kind of short (around 32 miles) and it seems kind of anemic to accelerate 0-60. So, I'm still looking.

 

[Huey52]

I don't summarily hate the PHEV and do see it as a practical range anxiety reducing vehicle in many BEV-infrastructure deprived areas.

I have friends who own the Hyundai Santa Fe PHEV and the smaller Toyota RAV4 Prime and they both respectively like them.

The Kia Sorento PHEV is generally praised as well, but I have no experience with same.

The Lincoln Aviator PHEV is rather huge, and yes expensive.

 

[Atlant]

I have friends who own the Hyundai Santa Fe PHEV and the smaller Toyota RAV4 Prime and they both respectively like them.

The Santa Fe is 'way too big for us but if there had been any Hyundai Tucson PHEVs to be purchased, there would have been a good chance that we'd be driving one of those right now instead of the ID.4, but the best we could manage was a brief look-around and sit-down in a Tucson that had already been purchased. It looked like a good choice for our needs: (almost) enough electric range for my daily use and PHEV so no worries about traveling in the vehicle.

Alternatively, I would have bought a 2017-2019 used Volt. That would certainly have had enough electric range for my daily needs and the Volt is a pretty-competent car in every other way as well but again, the ID.4 turned up first.

 

[Don]

A used Chevy Volt would be my choice - Anything newer than mid 2017 can be had with most of the features you'd want - Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane keep assist and so on, Find a NICE one with less than 20 or 25K on it and you'll be all set for $20K or less. I had one for 3 years and if a PHEV is your thing, IMO it's one of the best out there . . . . for a reasonable price. The chassis is all set up to be a proper EV and the way they integrate the gas engine into the mix is revolutionary, to say the least. 40 MPG+ at 70 MPH on gas from a 4,500 pound car. Cadillac had models using the same drive train for several years, but they're a little harder to find

 

[Atlant]

Find a NICE one with less than 20 or 25K on it and you'll be all set for $20K or less.

They tend to be a bit more expensive than that nowadays; more like US$25,000. But they still represent a good value, IMNSHO.

 

[kenchills]

@truthseeker

Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid? (which is a PHEV)
Is this bigger than what you're looking for?
32miles all electric range before switching to gas. Very respectable acceleration for a minivan. Good gas milage 28-29mpg when driving on road trips in gas/hybrid mode. Very nice inside and tons of room. Qualifies for $7500 tax credit even under IRA.
Granted this is a Chrysler, and so is not expected to be a long term dependable vehicle if you are planning on keeping it for a long long time.
Significant other is driving one of these until the ID Buzz can be had here in the US. We're averaging close to 90% all-electric miles with this vehicle.

 

[Atlant]

Granted this is a Chrysler, and so is not expected to be a long term dependable vehicle if you are planning on keeping it for a long long time.

I'm glad you mentioned that or I would have had to. ;-) Chrysler products don't seem to engineered for the long run that I tend to give my vehicles; lots of their parts seem to be sorta-kinda “70,000 mile” parts.

 

[kenchills]

I'm glad you mentioned that or I would have had to. ;-) Chrysler products don't seem to engineered for the long run that I tend to give my vehicles; lots of their parts seem to be sorta-kinda “70,000 mile” parts.

I'm absolutely with you on this. I highly doubt many of these 2017-2022 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrids will be on the road 15 years from now. However, it's a really nice vehicle and a good option if you plan on owning it for the short term. I don't mind owning it under warranty while we're waiting for the ID Buzz.
(Toyota seriously is missing out by not making the Sienna a PHEV instead of just a hybrid. If there was a Sienna Prime, I'd really consider holding onto it even when the ID Buzz comes out. Ultimate no worry road trip vehicle until the US DCFC networks get up to speed with the IRA buildout.)

 

[truthseeker]

A used Chevy Volt would be my choice - Anything newer than mid 2017 can be had with most of the features you'd want - Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane keep assist and so on, Find a NICE one with less than 20 or 25K on it and you'll be all set for $20K or less. I had one for 3 years and if a PHEV is your thing, IMO it's one of the best out there . . . . for a reasonable price. The chassis is all set up to be a proper EV and the way they integrate the gas engine into the mix is revolutionary, to say the least. 40 MPG+ at 70 MPH on gas from a 4,500 pound car. Cadillac had models using the same drive train for several years, but they're a little harder to find

I need the cargo space to have at least 45 cubic feet behind the second row seats. I don't care about the 3rd row either way.

 

[rschmitz]

If you want on the more manageable size side - there is the Kia Niro PHEV (2023) packed full of utility and tech. There is also the Sportage PHEV and the Sorento PHEV...going up in sizes. All have pretty decent EV only range, packed full of tech, 2 are made in the U.S. and super long warranties. We have a 330e and an ID.4 - IMHO its the best blend for a garage - my commute is pretty predictable and fits within the ID.4 range and I know when I have to be in the office a day before, my husbands can be last minute and is a stretch for the ID.4, so the 330e works perfectly for that use case as well.

 

[Atlant]

I'm absolutely with you on this. I highly doubt many of these 2017-2022 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrids will be on the road 15 years from now. However, it's a really nice vehicle and a good option if you plan on owning it for the short term. I don't mind owning it under warranty while we're waiting for the ID Buzz.

Between my Dodge Grand Caravan and my AWD Chrysler Town & Country, I've probably got near a quarter-million miles of driving experience in these vehicles and I have to say that I ABSOLUTELY LOVED driving them. But they were never reliable. The GC was bought slightly used but still had much of the factory warranty but even then it was unreliable although we sort-of achieved a détente for much of its life. (It seriously impressed my wife the day the transaxle's differential case exploded on her at an intersection.) The T&C and I never got to that point of détente; I bought it used and it spent a lot of its life with my mechanic and I trying to diagnose it wanting to drag its brakes; four wheels worth of new calipers finally fixed that problem (“Plastic pistons? Are you serious?”) but it kept coming up with a steady stream of other PitA failures and by that time, I owned the Volt so it spent a lot of its life parked awaiting the next snowstorm where it could be useful again.

I've sworn off any Stellantis vehicles for the rest of my life.

P.S.: BTW, does anybody need a never-installed brand new left front wheel ABS sensor for a 2003 Chrysler T&C? That was going to be the next step towards resolving the ABS gremlins that were plaguing the car before I junked it.

 

[Stinsy]

Is the Passat PHEV available in your market?

 

[truthseeker]

Is the Passat PHEV available in your market?

Don’t know, but I need an SUV.

 

[Stinsy]

Don’t know, but I need an SUV.

In that case XC90 PHEV is good (I assume that is available in your market).

 

[truthseeker]

If you want on the more manageable size side - there is the Kia Niro PHEV (2023) packed full of utility and tech. There is also the Sportage PHEV and the Sorento PHEV...going up in sizes. All have pretty decent EV only range, packed full of tech, 2 are made in the U.S. and super long warranties. We have a 330e and an ID.4 - IMHO its the best blend for a garage - my commute is pretty predictable and fits within the ID.4 range and I know when I have to be in the office a day before, my husbands can be last minute and is a stretch for the ID.4, so the 330e works perfectly for that use case as well.

I need the cargo space to have at least 45 cubic feet behind the second row seats. I don't care about the 3rd row either way.

This pretty much rules out everything KIA besides the Sorento PHEV. However, its electric range is barely usable for my use case. I’d like something with over 40 miles of electric range at a mimimim.

 

[truthseeker]

In that case XC90 PHEV is good (I assume that is available in your market).

I’ll look into it. Thanks.

Edit: XC90 PHEV electric range is about 20 miles. Useless to my use case.

 

[rschmitz]

I need the cargo space to have at least 45 cubic feet behind the second row seats. I don't care about the 3rd row either way.

This pretty much rules out everything KIA besides the Sorento PHEV. However, its electric range is barely usable for my use case. I’d like something with over 40 miles of electric range at a mimimim.

I am not sure there is a PHEV of that size that has the amount of usable EV range - it may be a unicorn.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

I need the cargo space to have at least 45 cubic feet behind the second row seats. I don't care about the 3rd row either way.

This pretty much rules out everything KIA besides the Sorento PHEV. However, its electric range is barely usable for my use case. I’d like something with over 40 miles of electric range at a mimimim.

With your requirements and type of vehicles you are looking there is nothing that will deliver in real world 40 miles on battery alone. Especially for US market.
Bolt EV would be great substitute if it fits as grocery getter and you can get one under 27k new. Unless you want to import some of Chinese hybrids.
In my opinion if you want reliability and want to keep it for long time...consider mild hybrid power plants they are much easier on your wallet once warranty is over.
Most of mild hybrids will eliminate alternator and Air conditioning will be run on electricity.... no belt power rubbing users on ICE engine. Avoiding to buy gasoline and forcing hybrid to run non stop on electricity will cost you on long run with costly repairs on ICE engine. PHEV are only efficient in stop and go traffic....on interstate they will use more fuel because of heavy battery pack that also makes it more complicated to keep it from freezing or overheating.
Mild hybrids are way to go if you want better efficiency and hybrid power plant. And they are less expensive than hybrids you can plug in.

 

[Atlant]

Avoiding to buy gasoline and forcing hybrid to run non stop on electricity will cost you on long run with costly repairs on ICE engine.

That depends on the programming, doesn't it? It's precisely for that reason that the Volt does “Engine Maintenance Mode” once a month or so where it runs the ICE long enough to warm up the oil, slosh it around, and boil off any condensed water vapor. Less frequently, it runs “Fuel Maintenance Mode” where it insists on burning through some fraction of the gasoline/petrol that's in your tank. It's a clever car!

PHEV are only efficient in stop and go traffic....on interstate they will use more fuel because of heavy battery pack that also makes it more complicated to keep it from freezing or overheating.

That's why most PHEVs have relatively small, light-weight battery packs!

 

[truthseeker]

This is what I want: