Volkswagen ID Forum banner

Need advice on a mid-size PHEV

4193 Views 104 Replies 19 Participants Last post by  VW TECHNICIAN
Those who hate PHEV, please don't post in this thread. No reason to.

I need a mid-size PHEV available in the US that I can drive in town on electric only drivetrain but that can be used as a regular gasoline vehicle for long road trips without having to plan my route ahead of time and having to exclude certain scenic drives due to the lack of charging infrastructure along the way. I need the electric-only range to be at least 40 miles.

My ideal vehicle is the Li L9, but, of course, it's not available in the US. I need the cargo space to have at least 45 cubic feet behind the second row seats. I don't care about the 3rd row either way.

Is there anything remotely close to what I'm looking for? I've run out of options. One vehicle I stumbled upon the other day was the Lincoln Aviator PHEV, but the trim I would consider costs north of $85,000, which is not something I'm prepared to pay for a PHEV with rather short EV-only range at this time. However, it's torque is pretty good, allowing it to do 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, which is very respectable for a gasoline vehicle of that size. I think the Kia Telluride PHEV could fit the bill (price-wise), but it doesn't exist (yet).

Kia Sorento PHEV could be a candidate, but the electric-only range is kind of short (around 32 miles) and it seems kind of anemic to accelerate 0-60. So, I'm still looking.
1 - 14 of 105 Posts
Is the Passat PHEV available in your market?
Don’t know, but I need an SUV.
In that case XC90 PHEV is good (I assume that is available in your market).
Outlander PHEV is on its way.
That is funny! We had the Outlander PHEV was marketed in the UK from 2014-2021 now the US are getting it…
How did they go with reliability with this PHEV in 🇬🇧?
They were very reliable. Bit of an oddball from a charging perspective.

Here is the Chronology:
  • Nissan launched the LEAF with Type-1 connector (same one you guys use in the US) for AC charging at 3.6-6kW and ChaDeMo for DC charging at 50kW.
  • Renault launched the Zoe with a Type-2 connector for AC charging between 3.6-43kW. Yes you read it correctly Renault went down a "AC rapid-charging" route.
  • Chargers were installed along major routes with both Type-2 AC and ChaDeMo charging cables.
  • Tesla came along with their own proprietary charging connector and "walled garden" charging facilities.
  • By 2013 Type-2 and CCS had won the "format war" and over the next few years: Tesla, Nissan, and everyone else, switched to Type-2 CCS.
  • However long after everyone else had switched to Type-2 CCS, Mitsubishi were selling a PHEV fitted with the now-defunct Type-1 and ChaDeMo connectors. Great if you'd had an old LEAF so had a hardwired Type-1 charging point at home. And originally there was still some public charging infrastructure with the old connectors, but it was no-longer maintained so unlikely to work.
See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 2
The 2023 Outlander PHEV coming to Mitsubishi dealerships any day now are outfitted with CHAdeMo for DC charging and J1772 for AC charging. Why would they put CHAdeMo in a brand new PHEV for the 2023 MY is inexplicable. Did anyone at Mitsubishi ask the product manager what the hell he was thinking? CHAdeMO charging infrastructure is on its way out. Yes, it still exists, but 10 years from now it will be a defunct DC charging standard in North America. I know that Circuit Électrique (subsidiary of Hydro Quebec, owned by the Government of Quebec) is still installing (or has recently been installing) 50 kW DC chargers with a CHAdeMO handle, but in the US, this is a dying standard. I think in other Canadian provinces, CHAdeMO is also on its way out.

How can there be such an obvious oversight?
Neither ChaDeMo nor Type-1 made sense in the UK in 2014, they were dying standards, but Mitsubishi went ahead anyway. And they continued to sell cars with those connectors up until 2021, long after Nissan and Tesla moved to Type-2, and long after the old ChaDeMo public charging infrastructure had been replaced.

At least Type-1 is likely to persist in NA!

Basically: Imagine a company launching a MiniDisk player a few years after the iPod was launched. Then imagine them persisting with their product for another 8 years. And then imagine them launching that product in NA!

If Tesla, Nissan, and everyone else can switch to CCS, Why can't Mitsubishi?
Nissan’s 2023 Leafs are still on CHAdeMO in NA.
Tesla still uses their proprietary connector in NA too.

Does it really matter what kind of DCFC port a PHEV has? Why would anyone be fast charging them? With 40 miles of range, wouldn’t you just be charging at home with Level 1 or 2? Surely you wouldn’t go on a road trip and want to fast charge every 40 miles.
But when you do stop for food, coffee, comfort, or whatever, it is nice to fill up on electricity while you’re there.

Many PHEVs have DCFC ability. Land Rover PHEVs have CCS and VW have announced that future PHEVs will have CCS.
Here is a review from a decade ago:

  • Like
Reactions: 1
🇬🇧 is great testing ground for PHEV with a lot of rain and humidity that really helps find any problems developing over time.
They can market it as “tried and tested” rather than “outdated at launch”.
This is a different generation. The only thing in common is the name.
And the obsolete charging port!
So what are your thoughts on 2023 model?
The version you’re getting in NA is the 4th generation launched in 2021. I know little about it except it has more powerful electric motors, longer electric-only range, and you can get the PHEV in 7-seat (all predictable incremental improvements). Unfortunately Mitsubushi has abandoned the UK market completely. Bizarre choice because the competitively-priced Outlander really got them some decent market share.
  • Like
Reactions: 1
This is the only PHEV for sale in North America with DC charging capability. The utility of DC charging a battery whose range lasts 40 miles or less (on 80% SOC) but takes 40 minutes to charge 0-80 is unclear to me, and if given a choice, I would probably opt out of this feature if it saved me $500 - $1,000, but in no way do I see it as a flaw of this vehicle. It’s a feature that I will probably never or rarely use. There is a place I go every summer for a month where I can use DC charging to cover my daily driving 100%. I would save about $110 (in current gas prices) during that month if I DC charge the Outlander vs buying gas. The DC charger is next to a coffee shop I patronize, so a 40-minute charging session would fall in line with the amount of time I usually spend there daily anyway. The DC charger has a stall with a 50 kW CHAdeMO handle, so it would be a perfect situation for me. It would cover coffee expenses for me for that month, but not my wife. Is it worth having it on a PHEV? I don’t see the point, but I also don’t think it’s a huge flaw of the vehicle. It’s just an unnecessary feature whose utility escapes me.

If the Outlander could charge in half the time, and if Mitsubishi had a plan to replace this 20 kW battery in the future with one double the size on existing vehicles (for an additional fee), then this feature would start making sense.
Do you not get Land Rover's PHEV range over there? In Europe the Defender, Discovery, Velar, Evoque, and Range Rover PHEVs all have CCS. I believe that some Mercedes PHEVs also have CCS and VW has announced that all PHEVs will have CCS at some point in future. So rapid-charging on PHEVs is a thing.

And why not? Have you never driven 30-40 miles to a store been there 20mins then driven home? It'd be nice to do all of that on electric wouldn't it? Even on long journeys, my family needs to stop every 150-200 miles, can you not see how filling up with 30-40 miles of electric at each of these stops could be useful?
Not familiar with any of these PHEVs. There are no DC chargers near stores where I live except at some Walmarts (very few). Only L2 chargers, and even that is a rarity. No, I don’t see a point spending 40 minutes at a DC charger to get 40 miles of electric range on road trips. It makes no sense to me. Maybe in Europe it’s different. Maybe you have DC chargers on every corner. Not the case here. If it were the case, I wouldn’t be looking for a PHEV and would stick with my two EVs.
Obviously out of town stores such as Ikea have had charging provision for many years. Pretty much all supermarkets have 50kW rapids in addition to AC charging (the AC charging used to be free but nowadays that is rare). The idea is to charge while you shop. You're not supposed to wait with your car for it to charge.

If you look at the video I posted above you can see "Kryten" using the old Ecotricity chargers to charge the Outlander, these used to be at service areas. They were 50kW ChaDeMo and 43kW Type-2 AC (they later had CCS added) The video was 10 years ago, I think the Ecotricity chargers are all gone now, replaced with large banks of 350kW CCS chargers.
Since you are an expert in cars, I suggest you test drive it. I would be interested in reading your opinion.
I can confirm that Mitsubushi sold a vast number of Outlanders in the UK. And the tech was very interesting. However:

1) That tech is now 10 years out of date.

2) They sold so many primarily because there were HUGE tax advantages for PHEVs in the uk. Not because the Outlander was a particularly good car. When the tax advantages disappeared so did sales and Mitsubushi has now quit the UK market entirely.

I have a Golf PHEV and it is really good, VW also do a Passat with the same drivetrain, I’m sure that’s good too. Does VW sell those in your market?
1 - 14 of 105 Posts