[Mrcleop]

I've found a dealership that is getting an 2023 Outlander PHEV SEL (unspoken for) in a week. This is an expensive vehicle in the SEL trim. I would need it to have the Premium package, which makes it around $50,000. On the other hand, it gets $7,500 in federal tax credit if sold before January 1, 2023.

I've done some more reading and watching on the 2023 Outlander PHEV, and it seems to be a pretty decent cargo space (33.5 cubic feet behind the second-row seats): 2023 Mitsubishi Outlander 3rd Row Seating & Cargo | Mitsubishi Motors

ID.4 has 30.3 cubic feet of cargo space behind the second-row seats, while Model Y has 30.2 cubic feet behind the second-row seats (but Model Y has 4 cubic feet of space in the frunk). So, the total amount of cargo space in the Model Y (with the second-row seats up) is 34.2 cubic feet, whereas the 2023 Outlander PHEV has 33.5 cubic feet of space). Because this space is all in the same area in the 2023 Outlander PHEV, this cargo space can probably be used more efficiently than in the Model Y, so I would say the Model Y and the 2023 Outlander PHEV have the same amount of cargo space.

Additionally, it appears that the 2023 Outlander PHEV has a fully electric drivetrain with two electric motors (one on each axle). It's a permanent AWD. There is a 4-cylinder gasoline engine that can be used in two modes: one is as a pure generator for the 20 kW battery; the other as a direct drive for the front axel. There is not a lot of information on this vehicle yet, so I'm not sure if it's possible to select whether to use the gasoline engine as in a generator-only mode; however, it appears that the gasoline engine doesn't come in unless the battery is near empty, at which point there may (or may not) be a way to select how the gasoline engine would be used.

Personally, I would prefer driving this vehicle as a pure EV in town (as long as I'm staying within the battery range, which is 38 miles) and then use the gasoline engine as a generator only (while driving in town if I've exceeded the battery range). However, when going on a road trip, I would prefer allowing the engine to drive the front axle directly (maybe) because I've heard somewhere that it's more efficient when driving the front axle instead of being used as a generator. The details as to how the gasoline engine is used in the 2023 Outlander PHEV are very scarce at the moment.

I would probably get 97% of driving in the 2023 Outlander PHEV on electric battery only, which is excellent. The battery charges at 3.5 kW on J1772, which is slow, but it will charge to 100% in less than 6 hours, so it can be recharged every night to get another 38 miles. I could probably even charge it to 80% and still stay daily within the battery range (but it will be close). The SEL trim gets the CHAdeMO DC charging capability at up to 50 kW. I it charges 0 to 80% in about 38 minutes, which is a questionable feature.

This is getting closer to the concept of the Li L9, but we are still a long way off. I would need to have 80-miles of real-time battery range and 45-50 cubic feet of cargo space behind second row to consider it a perfect vehicle for my needs.

I’m pretty sure it’s not assembled in North America so it wouldn’t qualify for the tax credit now.

 

[truthseeker]

There are some great mild hybrids on the market now and some plug in hybrids that don't deliver what you need.

Spent half a day yesterday calling every Ford dealer (about 15), every Lincoln dealer, and every Kia dealer in my metro area. Ford Explorer hybrid is not available anywhere in my metro area. There were only a few sold in the past year. US Southeast doesn't get much allocation for hybrids, according to Ford. Lincoln Aviator PHEV (really too expensive) is not available anywhere in my metro area. The wait time to get either one on a pre-order is 4-6 months best case scenario. Kia Sorento PHEV isn't available anywhere in the US Southeast at this time. There is no pre-order with Kia, but they will happily charge you $10,000 over MSRP to try to get one for you. Kia Sportage PHEV hasn't yet been seen anywhere in the Southeast. I know RAV4 PHEV is impossible to get either and the wait time is like 8-12 months on it.

So, it's not so easy to get a hybrid or a PHEV. Every dealer I've called so far has told me that the supply of hybrids and PHEVs is basically non-existing in the Southeast.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Spent half a day yesterday calling every Ford dealer (about 15), every Lincoln dealer, and every Kia dealer in my metro area. Ford Explorer hybrid is not available anywhere in my metro area. There were only a few sold in the past year. US Southeast doesn't get much allocation for hybrids, according to Ford. Lincoln Aviator PHEV (really too expensive) is not available anywhere in my metro area. The wait time to get on on a pre-order either is 4-6 months best case scenario. Kia Sorento PHEV is not available anywhere in the US Southeast at this time. There is no pre-order with Kia, but they will happily charge you $10,000 over MSRP to try to get one for you. Kia Sportage PHEV hasn't yet been seen anywhere in the Southeast.

So, it's not so easy to get a hybrid or a PHEV. I know RAV4 PHEV is impossible to get either and the wait time is like 8-12 months on it.

I guess you will be better on holding on your new vehicle for next 12-18 months.... there will be dealership's offering great discounts just to move new vehicle's seating on the lots. If you ask me i would not pay one penny over MSRP or paying any extra fees some dealership's are trying to charge for paint protection or some other nonsense options.
If you want additional protection for paint or other things, shop by yourself and you will get it much cheaper than any dealership offers....this includes also extended warranties. Fixing what you have now is better investment than buying new vehicle.

 

[truthseeker]

I’m pretty sure it’s not assembled in North America so it wouldn’t qualify for the tax credit now.

It qualifies for $7,500 in federal tax credit. I've checked.

 

[truthseeker]

I guess you will be better on holding on your new vehicle for next 12-18 months.... there will be dealership's offering great discounts just to move new vehicle's seating on the lots. If you ask me i would not pay one penny over MSRP or paying any extra fees some dealership's are trying to charge for paint protection or some other nonsense options.
If you want additional protection for paint or other things, shop by yourself and you will get it much cheaper than any dealership offers....this includes also extended warranties. Fixing what you have now is better investment than buying new vehicle.

I don't have anything right now that runs on gas. That's the whole point of me looking for a PHEV. I own two EVs right now.

 

[truthseeker]

I've watched some review videos that started to pop up on the 2023 Outlander PHEV. This Canadian dude got almost 50 miles in 30-32F with non-EV winter tires and running heat, heated seats, and heated steering wheel while driving in a city on 100% battery. This is solid 40 miles of pure electric drive on 80% battery for daily driving. In summer time, I assume it will be even better with all-season EV tires (that come on the Outlander PHEV).

I've also found out that there is a driving mode where the the gasoline engine is used as a generator only. The engine can generate up to 80 kW for charging the battery. I figure that under normal driving conditions at 70 mph, the continuous two-motor AWD system consumes less than 30 kW, so the engine should be able to easily keep up with the electric consumption to keep the battery charged (probably at 80%, but I don't know for sure). The 16 kWh of battery cells (80% of the total of 20 kWh of usable battery cells) should be able to allow the two-motor AWD system to boost to the full 180 kW (if necessary) for short periods of time; e.g. when climbing a steep hill or accelerating hard. I figure the battery buffer of 16 kW would allow about 10 minutes of continuously using the full 180 kW of power (100 kW above the generator capacity with a 16 kWh battery buffer). This would be pushing the PHEV up an extremely steep hill for 10 minutes straight, which is not something that would happen in real life.

The Outlander PHEV has 180 kW combined (100 kW in the rear and 80 kW in the front), which is 241.38 horsepower.

VW ID.4 has a 140 kW motor in the rear and 80 kW motor in the front (for 295 horsepower combined), but the VW drive train is not a continuous AWD.

All in all, I think the 2023 Outlander PHEV can do 0-60 in 6.5 seconds or so compared to 5.8 seconds for the AWD ID.4. The way I drive, this acceleration is adequate; I would love it to be under 6 seconds, but under 7 seconds is fine as well.

This is possibly my next car to replace the Model Y (maybe).

The top trim has every feature one could think of, and the interior is much nicer than that of the ID.4. Now I just need to test drive one. I think I'll keep my ID.4 as the primary around-town vehicle and use the Outlander PHEV as a secondary around-town one, as well as the primary one for road trips.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

I've watched some review videos that started to pop up on the 2023 Outlander PHEV. This Canadian dude got almost 50 miles in 30-32F with winter non-EV tires running heat, heated seats, and heated steering wheel city driving on 100% battery. In summer time, I assume it will be even better. This is possibly my next car to replace the Model Y (maybe).

The top trim has every feature one could think of. Now I just need to test drive one.

This vehicle's have been sold for quite while in 🇬🇧 so check out some other videos.
Don't expect any rebates because they will be made in Japan and imported here ( i may be wrong about this information). They have been well accepted in EU because of affordable MSRP vs competition and what you getting for the money. Hybrid technology is quite amazing peace of engineering....reliability is unknown because it is completely new technology that they didn't have before.

 

[truthseeker]

This vehicle's have been sold for quite while in 🇬🇧 so check out some other videos.
Don't expect any rebates because they will be made in Japan and imported here ( i may be wrong about this information). They have been well accepted in EU because of affordable MSRP vs competition and what you getting for the money. Hybrid technology is quite amazing peace of engineering....reliability is unknown because it is completely new technology that they didn't have before.

This website lists it as a full $7500 federal tax credit, which is strange because the pre-orders didn’t even start before October of this year. So, how can it qualify for $7,500? I think it’s made in Franklin, TN.

Tax Incentives

Find out how you can save money through Federal tax incentives on your purchase of a new plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle!

www.fueleconomy.gov

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

This website lists it as a full $7500 federal tax credit, which is strange because the pre-orders didn’t even start before October of this year. So, how can it qualify for $7,500? I think it’s made in Franklin, TN.

Tax Incentives

Find out how you can save money through Federal tax incentives on your purchase of a new plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle!

www.fueleconomy.gov

Use official government channels

 

[truthseeker]

Use official government channels

It’s from www.fueleconomy.gov

 

[Mrcleop]

This website lists it as a full $7500 federal tax credit, which is strange because the pre-orders didn’t even start before October of this year. So, how can it qualify for $7,500? I think it’s made in Franklin, TN.

Tax Incentives

Find out how you can save money through Federal tax incentives on your purchase of a new plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle!

www.fueleconomy.gov

Fueleconomy.gov didn’t update their list for NA assembly. They just have a big red warning box and redirect you to another government website. It also lists the Ioniq 5 on there for $7500, so we know it’s not updated. I think the information is pre-Aug 16.

 

[truthseeker]

Fueleconomy.gov didn’t update their list for NA assembly. They just have a big red warning box and redirect you to another government website. It also lists the Ioniq 5 on there for $7500, so we know it’s not updated. I think the information is pre-Aug 16.

Agreed. No rebate. That's fine. I will order what I want in the color I want and will get it in 2.5 months.

 

[truthseeker]

Another review just dropped. This is a good one.

I think the 2023 Outlander PHEV is actually very similar to the ID.4 trim-for-trim comparison. The top-trim 2023 Pro S Plus AWD ID.4 is very similarly comparable with the 2023 Outlander Premium trim, except the Outlander has a HUD, a heat pump, and the driver seat /mirror memory based on the keyfob on top of the features similar to the ID.4. Both have similar driver-assist systems. Both have 360-view camera. Both have massaging seats (driver and passenger) with two-person memory presets. Neither has ventilated seats. Both have B-drive (called "innovative pedal" in the Outlander), which doesn't bring the car to a complete stop. Even the charge port is on the same side in the same place. The Outlander PHEV also has an app that can schedule the charging and also schedule the pre-conditioning of the cabin and the battery from the grid (while it's plugged in), and hopefully the Mitsubishi app actually works.

I'd say the only questionable feature on the Outlander SEL and higher trims is the CHAdeMO DC charging, which is pretty slow (0-80% in 40 minutes) to add to the CHAdeMO oddity. I still can't figure out the utility of this feature.

 

[Stinsy]

Here is a review from a decade ago:

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Here is a review from a decade ago:

🇬🇧 is great testing ground for PHEV with a lot of rain and humidity that really helps find any problems developing over time.

 

[Stinsy]

🇬🇧 is great testing ground for PHEV with a lot of rain and humidity that really helps find any problems developing over time.

They can market it as “tried and tested” rather than “outdated at launch”.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

They can market it as “tried and tested” rather than “outdated at launch”.

So what are your thoughts on 2023 model?

 

[truthseeker]

They can market it as “tried and tested” rather than “outdated at launch”.

This is a different generation. The only thing in common is the name.

 

[Stinsy]

This is a different generation. The only thing in common is the name.

And the obsolete charging port!

 

[Stinsy]

So what are your thoughts on 2023 model?

The version you’re getting in NA is the 4th generation launched in 2021. I know little about it except it has more powerful electric motors, longer electric-only range, and you can get the PHEV in 7-seat (all predictable incremental improvements). Unfortunately Mitsubushi has abandoned the UK market completely. Bizarre choice because the competitively-priced Outlander really got them some decent market share.