[truthseeker]

And the obsolete charging port!

This obsolete charging port (CHAdeMO) is for DC charging only and is available on the SEL and higher trims; lower trims don’t have it. The AC charging port right next to it is a standard J1772 receptacle.

This is the only PHEV for sale in North America with DC charging capability. The utility of DC charging a battery whose range lasts 40 miles or less (on 80% SOC) but takes 40 minutes to charge 0-80 is unclear to me, and if given a choice, I would probably opt out of this feature if it saved me $500 - $1,000, but in no way do I see it as a flaw of this vehicle. It’s a feature that I will probably never or rarely use. There is a place I go every summer for a month where I can use DC charging to cover my daily driving 100%. I would save about $110 (in current gas prices) during that month if I DC charge the Outlander vs buying gas. The DC charger is next to a coffee shop I patronize, so a 40-minute charging session would fall in line with the amount of time I usually spend there daily anyway. The DC charger has a stall with a 50 kW CHAdeMO handle, so it would be a perfect situation for me. It would cover coffee expenses for me for that month, but not my wife. Is it worth having it on a PHEV? I don’t see the point, but I also don’t think it’s a huge flaw of the vehicle. It’s just an unnecessary feature whose utility escapes me.

If the Outlander could charge in half the time, and if Mitsubishi had a plan to replace this 20 kW battery in the future with one double the size on existing vehicles (for an additional fee), then this feature would start making sense.

 

[Stinsy]

This is the only PHEV for sale in North America with DC charging capability. The utility of DC charging a battery whose range lasts 40 miles or less (on 80% SOC) but takes 40 minutes to charge 0-80 is unclear to me, and if given a choice, I would probably opt out of this feature if it saved me $500 - $1,000, but in no way do I see it as a flaw of this vehicle. It’s a feature that I will probably never or rarely use. There is a place I go every summer for a month where I can use DC charging to cover my daily driving 100%. I would save about $110 (in current gas prices) during that month if I DC charge the Outlander vs buying gas. The DC charger is next to a coffee shop I patronize, so a 40-minute charging session would fall in line with the amount of time I usually spend there daily anyway. The DC charger has a stall with a 50 kW CHAdeMO handle, so it would be a perfect situation for me. It would cover coffee expenses for me for that month, but not my wife. Is it worth having it on a PHEV? I don’t see the point, but I also don’t think it’s a huge flaw of the vehicle. It’s just an unnecessary feature whose utility escapes me.

If the Outlander could charge in half the time, and if Mitsubishi had a plan to replace this 20 kW battery in the future with one double the size on existing vehicles (for an additional fee), then this feature would start making sense.

Do you not get Land Rover's PHEV range over there? In Europe the Defender, Discovery, Velar, Evoque, and Range Rover PHEVs all have CCS. I believe that some Mercedes PHEVs also have CCS and VW has announced that all PHEVs will have CCS at some point in future. So rapid-charging on PHEVs is a thing.

And why not? Have you never driven 30-40 miles to a store been there 20mins then driven home? It'd be nice to do all of that on electric wouldn't it? Even on long journeys, my family needs to stop every 150-200 miles, can you not see how filling up with 30-40 miles of electric at each of these stops could be useful?

 

[truthseeker]

Do you not get Land Rover's PHEV range over there? In Europe the Defender, Discovery, Velar, Evoque, and Range Rover PHEVs all have CCS. I believe that some Mercedes PHEVs also have CCS and VW has announced that all PHEVs will have CCS at some point in future. So rapid-charging on PHEVs is a thing.

And why not? Have you never driven 30-40 miles to a store been there 20mins then driven home? It'd be nice to do all of that on electric wouldn't it? Even on long journeys, my family needs to stop every 150-200 miles, can you not see how filling up with 30-40 miles of electric at each of these stops could be useful?

Wasn’t familiar with any of these PHEVs, but I looked them up, and they cost more than twice as much as the Outlander. If I were to pay that much, I would buy a Model X or a Lucid. Frankly, I’m not even sure these PHEVs are for sale in the US. Economically, they make no sense costing over $100,000 to save their owners a few bucks per day.

There are no DC chargers near stores where I live except at some Walmarts (very few). Only L2 chargers, and even that is a rarity.

No, I don’t see a point spending 40 minutes at a DC charger to get 40 miles of electric range on road trips. I’m not going to seek out a scarce DC charger on a Walmart parking lot during a road trip to get 40 miles of electric range because I don’t want to spend 40 minutes at a Walmart, and there is usually nothing else of note within a walking distance. I already have to do this now with the ID.4, but at least I can get three times as much range in 40 minutes, and I don’t get to have a choice to use gasoline to propel the ID.4 to save me 30 minutes of time. So, no, it makes no sense to me.

Perhaps, in Europe it’s different. Maybe you have DC chargers on every corner. Not the case here. If it were the case, I wouldn’t be looking for a PHEV and would stick with my two EVs.

 

[Stinsy]

Not familiar with any of these PHEVs. There are no DC chargers near stores where I live except at some Walmarts (very few). Only L2 chargers, and even that is a rarity. No, I don’t see a point spending 40 minutes at a DC charger to get 40 miles of electric range on road trips. It makes no sense to me. Maybe in Europe it’s different. Maybe you have DC chargers on every corner. Not the case here. If it were the case, I wouldn’t be looking for a PHEV and would stick with my two EVs.

Obviously out of town stores such as Ikea have had charging provision for many years. Pretty much all supermarkets have 50kW rapids in addition to AC charging (the AC charging used to be free but nowadays that is rare). The idea is to charge while you shop. You're not supposed to wait with your car for it to charge.

If you look at the video I posted above you can see "Kryten" using the old Ecotricity chargers to charge the Outlander, these used to be at service areas. They were 50kW ChaDeMo and 43kW Type-2 AC (they later had CCS added) The video was 10 years ago, I think the Ecotricity chargers are all gone now, replaced with large banks of 350kW CCS chargers.

 

[truthseeker]

Here’s another review of the 2023 Outlander PHEV that has just been published. This one goes in more detail on how the gasoline engine is used (as a battery warmer in colder climates for cold start, as a generator for the battery, and as a direct drive for the front axle). I think once the battery is exhausted, the gasoline engine drives the front axle directly at highway speeds, but it switches to the generator mode at lower speeds for higher torque via electric drivetrain. It’s possible to turn the engine off when switching to EV mode as long as the battery is warm enough and has charge. Also, the EV mode (when selected) survives the vehicle shut off, so next time you start the vehicle, it will stay in EV mode. This review also confirms up to 85 km (52 miles) of electric range in warmer temperatures (non-highway) driving. This would definitely cover my daily needs for 99% of all use cases in metro Atlanta.

 

[rschmitz]

I need 45 cubic feet of cargo area behind the second row of seats.

wait...let me understand this...you need 45 cubic feet of space behind the second row?

 

[truthseeker]

wait...let me understand this...you need 45 cubic feet of space behind the second row?

Yes. That and 40 miles of electric range. I don’t seem to be able to find such a PHEV for sale in the US.

 

[rschmitz]

Yes. That and 40 miles of electric range. I don’t seem to be able to find such a PHEV for sale in the US.

Seems like you are either going to have to wait until an OEM comes up with a solution, or relax your demands for the vehicle....because after 87 posts...it doesn't appear that there is a vehicle that meets your needs.

 

[truthseeker]

Seems like you are either going to have to wait until an OEM comes up with a solution, or relax your demands for the vehicle....because after 87 posts...it doesn't appear that there is a vehicle that meets your needs.

I already have relaxed my demands.

 

[rschmitz]

I already have relaxed my demands.

What did you end up with?

 

[truthseeker]

What did you end up with?

I haven't bought it yet, but I will be test-driving a 2023 Outlander SEL with Premium Package next week. If I like it, I will order one with exact colors that I want. The wait time is about 2.5 months.

 

[truthseeker]

Drove the 2023 Outlander PHEV. Disappointed. Literally 10 seconds into the test drive, I told my wife, “we are done”. The vehicle feels loose. The brake pedal feels weak and grabby. The acceleration is in worse than the RWD ID.4 - very anemic. The gasoline engine comes on for no apparent reason even when the vehicle is in the EV mode. Turning the vehicle off and on again, puts it back in the EV mode and it stays in it until you push it, and then the engine kicks in again. Frankly, I would be upset if I had to rent it for a week. It’s that bad.

Overall, on the scale of 0-10, with the AWD ID.4 being a 7, the Outlander PHEV is a 2.5 or maximum a 3. Great concept. Very poor execution.

 

[rth121]

The best PHEV SUV is probably still the Toyota Rav4 Prime unless you're going upmarket and aim for a Volvo PHEV or BMW.

 

[truthseeker]

The best PHEV SUV is probably still the Toyota Rav4 Prime unless you're going upmarket and aim for a Volvo PHEV or BMW.

Not only can I not buy one, I can't even test drive one. I called all Toyota dealerships, and I was told that the last one that one of them had was over 6 months ago. None of them even has one that I can test drive. So, the Rav4 Prime is not attainable, as I won't try to get one out of town if I can't first test drive it.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Not only can I not buy one, I can't even test drive one. I called all Toyota dealerships, and I was told that the last one that one of them had was over 6 months ago. None of them even has one that I can test drive. So, the Rav4 Prime is not attainable, as I won't try to get one out of town if I can't first test drive it.

It is very good hybrid 5th generation and quite fast....no need to test drive.... if you order one you will not be disappointed.... another choice is to try mild hybrid 48V system like BMW.... you can test standard Toyota hybrid and experience test drive....then try to imagine much faster vehicle with more powerful rear propulsion unit.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Toyota is #1 in hybrid technology and BMW was with Toyota to gain experience and access to the technology that they are using.
BMW 5th generation propulsion unit is using 6 phase stators similar what is found in Toyota sandwich type electric motors....but BMW is not using magnets for much higher efficiency and more efficient drives if equipped with AWD.

 

[surprising]

Did you happen to try out the various EV modes on the Outlander PHEV? The 'EV Priority Mode' description sounds like it will stop the gas engine use entirely. The 'Normal Mode' description sounds more like what you experienced- both electric motor and gas engine working together.

 

[truthseeker]

Did you happen to try out the various EV modes on the Outlander PHEV? The 'EV Priority Mode' description sounds like it will stop the gas engine use entirely. The 'Normal Mode' description sounds more like what you experienced- both electric motor and gas engine working together.

Yes, I was in EV mode. I specifically selected it. There is an EV button that toggles through all the modes, so I made sure I was in EV.

Mitsubishi has contradictory information about the power of the electric motors in this PHEV.Their website says 70 kW (95 HP) rear and 60 kW front (81.6HP) front. However, the dealers list 134 HP rear and 114 HP front (for a total of 248 HP) and 332 lbs ft of torque. Supposedly. It’s only a few lbs ft of torque fewer than the AWD ID.4.

I can tell you that it didn’t feel anywhere like 332 lbs ft of torque or 248 HP. Maybe Mitsubishi sends a different version of this vehicle to the US because 176 HP sounds more like what it felt to me than 248 HP, and the torque wasn’t even close to that of the AWD ID.4. Otherwise, the 2023 Outlander PHEV in unremarkable and unrefined. The brakes feel tiny, weak, and grabby. The ride is so loose and imprecise. Just a terrible feeling driving this PHEV.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Yes, I was in EV mode. I specifically selected it. There is an EV button that toggles through all the modes, so I made sure I was in EV.

Mitsubishi has contradictory information about the power of the electric motors in this PHEV.Their website says 70 kW (95 HP) rear and 60 kW front (81.6HP) front. However, the dealers list 134 HP rear and 114 HP front (for a total of 248 HP) and 332 lbs ft of torque. Supposedly. It’s only a few lbs ft of torque fewer than the AWD ID.4.

I can tell you that it didn’t feel anywhere like 332 lbs ft of torque or 248 HP. Maybe Mitsubishi sends a different version of this vehicle to the US because 176 HP sounds more like what it felt to me than 248 HP, and the torque wasn’t even close to that of the AWD ID.4. Otherwise, the 2023 Outlander PHEV in unremarkable and unrefined. The brakes feel tiny, weak, and grabby. The ride is so loose and imprecise. Just a terrible feeling driving this PHEV.

In England was best selling hybrid SUV....you can't have it all... efficiency and performance. SUV should not be measured by performance....they are not made for that purpose.

 

[Mrcleop]

Yes, I was in EV mode. I specifically selected it. There is an EV button that toggles through all the modes, so I made sure I was in EV.

Mitsubishi has contradictory information about the power of the electric motors in this PHEV.Their website says 70 kW (95 HP) rear and 60 kW front (81.6HP) front. However, the dealers list 134 HP rear and 114 HP front (for a total of 248 HP) and 332 lbs ft of torque. Supposedly. It’s only a few lbs ft of torque fewer than the AWD ID.4.

I can tell you that it didn’t feel anywhere like 332 lbs ft of torque or 248 HP. Maybe Mitsubishi sends a different version of this vehicle to the US because 176 HP sounds more like what it felt to me than 248 HP, and the torque wasn’t even close to that of the AWD ID.4. Otherwise, the 2023 Outlander PHEV in unremarkable and unrefined. The brakes feel tiny, weak, and grabby. The ride is so loose and imprecise. Just a terrible feeling driving this PHEV.

With the RAV4 Prime, you get max acceleration in hybrid mode. It’s 5.7 sec compared to 9 sec in EV only mode. I wonder if Outlander is similar.