[Nocedit]

I know a new bill is kicking around Washington that Manchin is on board with shockingly. It basically opens up Tesla, Toyota ect to qualify for rebates again. But does it null and void the prior legislation? I just want to make sure I still qualify for the $7500 rebate when my VW is delivered. I also heard theres some strict battery component source limits that restricts Chinese or foreign parts in order to get the rebate? Curious how or if that would effect getting a VW ID.4 2022 from overseas vs a 2023 all American VW. Like if somehow 2022 ID.4s would lose the rebate and 2023 would keep it if legislation passes?

 

[wildpitcher]

I know a new bill is kicking around Washington that Manchin is on board with shockingly. It basically opens up Tesla, Toyota ect to qualify for rebates again. But does it null and void the prior legislation? I just want to make sure I still qualify for the $7500 rebate when my VW is delivered. I also heard theres some strict battery component source limits that restricts Chinese or foreign parts in order to get the rebate? Curious how or if that would effect getting a VW ID.4 2022 from overseas vs a 2023 all American VW. Like if somehow 2022 ID.4s would lose the rebate and 2023 would keep it if legislation passes?

Yes, but it appears the new Bill becomes effective January 1, 2023. Prior to that, it appears the old rules are in play.

Dave

 

[the ob]

Yes, but it appears the new Bill becomes effective January 1, 2023. Prior to that, it appears the old rules are in play.

Dave

so what are you going to do if that's true? Keep your 2022 reservation or get a new 2023? Just curious

 

[wildpitcher]

so what are you going to do if that's true? Keep your 2022 reservation or get a new 2023? Just curious

If what I interpreted is true, at this point I'm leaning to keeping the 2022. I'm not sure many EVs are going to qualify for the full $7500 under the new rules.

Dave

 

[Mrcleop]

I know a new bill is kicking around Washington that Manchin is on board with shockingly. It basically opens up Tesla, Toyota ect to qualify for rebates again. But does it null and void the prior legislation? I just want to make sure I still qualify for the $7500 rebate when my VW is delivered. I also heard theres some strict battery component source limits that restricts Chinese or foreign parts in order to get the rebate? Curious how or if that would effect getting a VW ID.4 2022 from overseas vs a 2023 all American VW. Like if somehow 2022 ID.4s would lose the rebate and 2023 would keep it if legislation passes?

The bill text could still change this weekend. But the current draft has a line that says vehicles will be required to have final assembly in North America effective on the day the law is enacted. There’s a transition clause that says if you have a written binding contract before that day, then you can apply the current 2022 tax credit.

So yes, if the bill were to pass as it is currently written, a 2022 ID.4 from Germany would no longer be eligible while a 2023 from Tennessee would. Unless you have a written binding contract in hand right now.

 

[Mrcleop]

Yes, but it appears the new Bill becomes effective January 1, 2023. Prior to that, it appears the old rules are in play.

Dave

What becomes effective on Jan 1 is the MSRP limits, the battery sourcing requirements, and the income limits. And the removal of the 200k vehicle limit for GM, Tesla, and Toyota.

 

[Nocedit]

Expect a ton of cancelled 2022 VW lock orders if that’s true. And if that’s the case… then the $7500 credit should still apply to 2022 VW until the entire bill kicks in January 1st 2023?

Ticking clock for VW on those 2022 ID.4s and questions about battery sources for the American made ID.4 to qualify also! 2023 VWs aren’t ensured a rebate yet under the new law.

 

[Mrcleop]

Expect a ton of cancelled 2022 VW lock orders if that’s true. But I didn’t see anything about foreign made VW not allowing the credit. Just foreign sourced batteries. And if that’s the case… then the $7500 credit should still apply to 2022 VW until the entire bill kicks in January 2023?

On page 366, line 24 states that final assembly has to occur in North America. On page 386 line 3 it says this is effective on date of enactment. It doesn’t matter where the battery components or minerals come from if the car isn’t assembled in North America.

I’m also on the Ioniq 5 forum and people are rightly upset they will lose their tax credit once the bill passes. Dealers are not providing a written binding contract until delivery. At least the ID.4 has a 2023 option that currently estimates delivery in Q4 2022.

 

[Nocedit]

The bill text could still change this weekend. But the current draft has a line that says vehicles will be required to have final assembly in North America effective on the day the law is enacted. There’s a transition clause that says if you have a written binding contract before that day, then you can apply the current 2022 tax credit.

So yes, if the bill were to pass as it is currently written, a 2022 ID.4 from Germany would no longer be eligible while a 2023 from Tennessee would. Unless you have a written binding contract in hand right now.

If that’s true…if the bill passes by end of august… then no EV vehicles purchased between sept 2022-Dec 2022 are eligible for the EV credit? (Since the old credit expires and I don’t think any EV vehicle is currently manufactured in the US with 100% US made battery and parts? Or the only vehicle with a chance would be the 2023 VW ID.4?

 

[TimD]

I think a new draft of the bill is supposed to be published tomorrow (Saturday). We’ll see if anything regarding EVs changes.

 

[Nocedit]

I think a new draft of the bill is supposed to be published tomorrow (Saturday). We’ll see if anything regarding EVs changes.

If it stays as written now... I predict a ton of 2022 VW ID.4's on dealer lots from cancelled orders sitting next to 2023 models. Then dealers trying to explain how the 2022 VW ID.4's don't qualify for the federal rebate and thus are $7500 more expensive. But the 2023's will have a higher MSRP.. so technically will look more expensive until you find out you get $7500 federal credit for those.

haha.. utter nonsense.

 

[Mrcleop]

If that’s true…if the bill passes by end of august… then no EV vehicles purchased between sept 2022-Dec 2022 are eligible for the EV credit? (Since the old credit expires and I don’t think any EV vehicle is currently manufactured in the US with 100% US made battery and parts? Or the only vehicle with a chance would be the 2023 VW ID.4?

Here’s a chart on Reddit that collated all the info. For this period between Sep-Dec 2022, the only thing that will matter is assembly in North America.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/wdjax3

 

[Mrcleop]

Here’s a chart on Reddit that collated all the info. For this period between Sep-Dec 2022, the only thing that will matter is assembly in North America.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/wdjax3

Not too many BEVs. The F-150 Lightning, Mach-E, Leaf, Rivians and Lucid.

 

[WBF25]

Here’s a chart on Reddit that collated all the info. For this period between Sep-Dec 2022, the only thing that will matter is assembly in North America.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/wdjax3

The caveat here is that the battery composition piece for 2023 (and later) rebates isn't particularly well-known, so the rebates for purchases in '23 may not be $7,500.

 

[sbt007]

Why have another thread for the same thing when we have a long one here: It is possible the ID4 will no longer be eligible for...

 

[wildpitcher]

What becomes effective on Jan 1 is the MSRP limits, the battery sourcing requirements, and the income limits. And the removal of the 200k vehicle limit for GM, Tesla, and Toyota.

I re-read it several times. It appears to say:

1) The effective date of the new credit rules is for all cars PLACED IN SERVICE after December 31, 2022 (30D(k)(1))
2) The rules about final assembly in North America apply to all vehicles SOLD after December 31, 2022 (30D(k)(2))
3) The transition rule allows vehicles that are SOLD after that effective date to be treated as if they were sold one day before the effective date, provided a "binding contract" was in place prior to the effective date. (30D(l)(1&2))

Nowhere in the act does it say anything becomes effective upon signing. It pretty clearly states January 1, 2023 and on.

The wording is confusing because it refers to the requirement for North American assembly applies to "vehicles sold after the date of enactment of this Act". (30D(k)(2)). I had originally thought "enactment" could mean upon signing, but in re-reading it pretty clearly states it is January 1, 2023.

Now is our deposit a "binding contract" or will I have to go to the dealer and put non-refundable money down on my 2022 prior to the end of the year if the car has not yet arrived?

Dave

 

[wildpitcher]

The caveat here is that the battery composition piece for 2023 (and later) rebates isn't particularly well-known, so the rebates for purchases in '23 may not be $7,500.

Yes, I think it is unlikely that most vehicles could satisfy the 40% of battery minerals from the US or free trade countries. The minerals are not mined in such countries today.

Dave

 

[WBF25]

I re-read it several times. It appears to say:

1) The effective date of the new credit rules is for all cars PLACED IN SERVICE after December 31, 2022 (30D(k)(1))
2) The rules about final assembly in North America apply to all vehicles SOLD after December 31, 2022 (30D(k)(2))
3) The transition rule allows vehicles that are SOLD after that effective date to be treated as if they were sold one day before the effective date, provided a "binding contract" was in place prior to the effective date. (30D(l)(1&2))

Nowhere in the act does it say anything becomes effective upon signing. It pretty clearly states January 1, 2023 and on.

The wording is confusing because it refers to the requirement for North American assembly applies to "vehicles sold after the date of enactment of this Act". (30D(k)(2)). I had originally thought "enactment" could mean upon signing, but in re-reading it pretty clearly states it is January 1, 2023.

Now is our deposit a "binding contract" or will I have to go to the dealer and put non-refundable money down on my 2022 prior to the end of the year if the car has not yet arrived?

The confusion for me lies in that the other rules specify a date for enactment (1/1/23) while the North American assembly one just says "date of enactment". I hope you're right though!

 

[wildpitcher]

If it stays as written now... I predict a ton of 2022 VW ID.4's on dealer lots from cancelled orders sitting next to 2023 models. Then dealers trying to explain how the 2022 VW ID.4's don't qualify for the federal rebate and thus are $7500 more expensive. But the 2023's will have a higher MSRP.. so technically will look more expensive until you find out you get $7500 federal credit for those.

haha.. utter nonsense.

Actually, the way I'm reading it, the 2022s likely still qualify for the full Tax Credit provided they were "ordered" (locked?) by the end of the year. The transition clause covers this. Paperwork may need to be done by 12/31 in such a way to commit to have remaining money due upon delivery.

Conversely, I'm highly doubtful that any EV will pass the 40% battery minerals being mined and processes in the right countries in 2023. Therefore, the ID.4 2023 Tax Credit might be $3875. Or worst case, it might be zero.

Dave

 

[Jimokid4]

Expect a ton of cancelled 2022 VW lock orders if that’s true. And if that’s the case… then the $7500 credit should still apply to 2022 VW until the entire bill kicks in January 1st 2023?

Ticking clock for VW on those 2022 ID.4s and questions about battery sources for the American made ID.4 to qualify also! 2023 VWs aren’t ensured a rebate yet under the new law.

My 2022 arrived last week. I was surprised to see that as of this moment the 2022 VW ID.4 is not on the official list of cars meeting the CURRENT criteria. The 2021 model did. Does anyone have info on this situation? VW needs to send the IRS some paperwork is my guess