[truthseeker]

This is really bad. I don’t think this only applies to the 2021 model year. My wife experienced this in our 2022 ID.4, which was manufactured in March of 2022.

I hope no one gets hurt because of this. If I had a 2021 ID.4, I would demanding a buy back right now.

There are hundreds of ID.4s sitting on dealer lots. VW has no way to fix this recall. They should buy back the defective ID.4s. Once they fix them, maybe they can sell them at a discount to a car rental company.

 

[JimmyVW]

This is really bad. I don’t think this only applies to the 2021 model year. My wife experienced this in our 2022 ID.4, which was manufactured in March of 2022.

I hope no one gets hurt because of this. If I had a 2021 ID.4, I would demanding a buy back right now.

There are hundreds of ID.4s sitting on dealer lots. VW has no way to fix this recall. They should buy back the defective ID.4s. Once they fix them, maybe they can sell them at a discount to a car rental company.

imho it applies to any car that is still on 2.1
you would need to check the respective firmware versions of the two modules

 

[M.B]

I don’t think halting the software upgrade campaign and this “new” safety issue are necessarily related. The software updates were probably primarily halted because several cars were bricked and it took two weeks to fix that. Perhaps 3.1 does fix the safety issue as well. If not, those folks should be able to get the update OTA. I love my ID.4, but have to agree I am not thrilled by all of this. I would like to see some sort of compensation for us MY21 beta testers. Why not extend the warranty and throw in two more free years of service?

 

[Atlant]

I love my ID.4, but have to agree I am not thrilled by all of this. I would like to see some sort of compensation for us MY21 beta testers. Why not extend the warranty and throw in two more free years of service?

THAT is an excellent suggestion and would certainly go a long ways towards sweetening my feelings towards my 2021 AWD Pro S!

 

[poolec4]

Interesting that my 9/21 production 2021 Pro RWD doesn't have any active recalls on VW's site or the app. VIN WVGRMPE24MP059XXX

Did they start implementing the updated software during 2021 production?

 

[lynnejohn]

How old is the CANBUS digital architecture in these cars? Wikipedia says it was developed in the late 80s. The first production car to use it was a 1991 Mercedes. Why have companies like VW stuck with this architecture for 20+ years?

CanBus is a reliable communications that is very noise immune, can be run long distances, can be point to multi-point(more than two devices on the same physical line) and does not require a large/expensive software stack to process communication packets. It became prominent in cars with central control modules needing to take sensor readings where the sensors are near spark plug wires(extremely noisy). Sensor manufacturers started building CanBus into the sensors which made it the go to protocol for cars/truck. It's not that it's old/bad, just that its slow compared to Ethernet on your computer. But Ethernet is not meant to be run near spark plugs(any high speed communication will have serious issues with high voltage noise.)

 

[Atlant]

But Ethernet is not meant to be run near spark plugs(any high speed communication will have serious issues with high voltage noise.)

Well that depends on the Physical Layer upon which Ethernet protocol is travelling, doesn't it? Ethernet protocol travelling on an optical fiber physical layer would have no trouble with EMI from spark(ing) plugs.

 

[Manybees]

Interesting that my 9/21 production 2021 Pro RWD doesn't have any active recalls on VW's site or the app. VIN WVGRMPE24MP059XXX

Did they start implementing the updated software during 2021 production?

According to the recall info on the NHTSA site, the software version with the fix for the BMS began being installed in production cars starting in calendar week 49 of 2021, and the fix for the pulse inverter was included in the software version starting in calendar week 20 of 2022.

My 2021 was built in late December 2021 and delivered in February 2022 after being held at the port for unknown reasons. My VIN doesn’t show a recall (yet), but I can say that over the past year, I’ve had zero software issues.

 

[Iotari]

Has anyone who had the 2.1-to 3.1 update done while it was available been able to check OBD to see if the BMS was updated? Curious if that was corrected or not.

 

[lynnejohn]

Well that depends on the Physical Layer upon which Ethernet protocol is travelling, doesn't it? Ethernet protocol travelling on an optical fiber physical layer would have no trouble with EMI from spark(ing) plugs.

Very true. Problem would be cost/availability. Fiber does not bend around tight corners well and you can't have more than one device on the physical line. It's also just too expensive currently for this type of application.

 

[Atlant]

Very true. Problem would be cost/availability. Fiber does not bend around tight corners well and you can't have more than one device on the physical line. It's also just too expensive currently for this type of application.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong on both counts. And plastic multimode fiber is very inexpensive and rugged.

 

[fireboy92k]

The problem with using ethernet in a safety-critical system is there is no bus prioritization, etc. Ethernet is a carrier-sense multiple access with collision detection protocol. You don't want your brake system trying to access to the bus only to find out it's being blocked by some lower-priority signal that already has the line open. On top of that, it requires a switch or a hub to network everything together.

CAN by comparison is controller-less. Every device is it's own manager. And it has prioritization and the ability for multiple devices to talk at the same time. All highly desireable in a safety system.

Not to mention that both Ethernet and CAN have had several revisions since they came out, but if we are going on age alone Ethernet outdates CAN by about a decade.

There are like 5 or 6 busses in the ID.4 BTW. It's in the DOT documents on this board.

 

[lynnejohn]

I'm sorry, but you're wrong on both counts. And plastic multimode fiber is very inexpensive and rugged.

This is why I don't post much. Inexpensive is a relative term. Maybe in your job you think multi-mode is inexpensive, but if the auto industry thought it was, it would have been used a long time ago. You also forget about how will fiber be connected across several devices. Multi-mode is great for networking equipment but until it can be connected to all the different sensors in a car it won't be used. When you start seeing multi-mode fiber in network isle at Target so you can connect your new game console to your router, it will be cheap enough for the auto industry.

 

[Atlant]

This is why I don't post much. Inexpensive is a relative term. Maybe in your job you think multi-mode is inexpensive, but if the auto industry thought it was, it would have been used a long time ago. You also forget about how will fiber be connected across several devices. Multi-mode is great for networking equipment but until it can be connected to all the different sensors in a car it won't be used. When you start seeing multi-mode fiber in network isle at Target so you can connect your new game console to your router, it will be cheap enough for the auto industry.

I don't think you understand what “multi-mode” means in this context.

 

[lynnejohn]

I don't think you understand what “multi-mode” means in this context.

I worked on networking gear for 20 years when OC3 first came out. Please don't belittle me.

 

[Nai3t]

I don’t think halting the software upgrade campaign and this “new” safety issue are necessarily related.

VW hasn't said it directly, but it was the first thing they referenced in yesterday's recall email and hinted at in last week's suspension email. I suppose it's possible the recall is being used as a smokescreen to stop and retool the update, and it's awfully confusing why, if the update includes the new BMS software.

"On December 6, 2022 we announced a first wave of software updates to a small number of MY21 ID.4 vehicles with a service action taking place in Volkswagen dealerships. We’ve since identified software improvements to address important issues that have come to our attention.

"Recently, the software updates for your Volkswagen ID.4 offered under Service Action 97FY were put on hold. This was because Volkswagen discovered that additional software improvements were necessary in order to address important vehicle concerns."

 

[blackout]

VW hasn't said it directly, but it was the first thing they referenced in yesterday's recall email and hinted at in last week's suspension email. I suppose it's possible the recall is being used as a smokescreen to stop and retool the update, and it's awfully confusing why, if the update includes the new BMS software.

"On December 6, 2022 we announced a first wave of software updates to a small number of MY21 ID.4 vehicles with a service action taking place in Volkswagen dealerships. We’ve since identified software improvements to address important issues that have come to our attention.

"Recently, the software updates for your Volkswagen ID.4 offered under Service Action 97FY were put on hold. This was because Volkswagen discovered that additional software improvements were necessary in order to address important vehicle concerns."

Maybe we’ll get lucky and get 3.1 at the same time as the recall service

 

[ddx]

Actually microcontrollers reboot very quickly, so 1-2 seconds seem plausible to me... Also do you think this error is it, please? New Recall Email

I only have Car Scanner App, I pulled the DTC I did not see anything that says inverter or the code 41716. But my thing happened many moons ago maybe it got reset or something, although I do see some codes dating back to August 2022.

EDIT: I just checked my app and of course my ID.4 is not in the recall although I had the symptom (maybe) once.

 

[mochalatte]

VW hasn't said it directly, but it was the first thing they referenced in yesterday's recall email and hinted at in last week's suspension email. I suppose it's possible the recall is being used as a smokescreen to stop and retool the update, and it's awfully confusing why, if the update includes the new BMS software.

Perhaps they don't have enough 12V batteries to do the full update campaign quickly and they are revamping the update into 2 stages to fix the recall issues for everyone first then get back to the portions that require the new 12V battery.

 

[Edison]

We received this letter this morning as well. I had this happen to me as I was trying to accelerate through an intersection after being stopped at the light. Started to go through the intersection and then suddenly couldn't get the car to move forward, like the accelerator pedal wasn't doing anything and there were warnings about the electrical system going off all over the place, then after a minute or two, I was able to accelerate again and the warnings disappeared. What's even more concerning is, it does not appear that my vehicle is included in the current recall based on our VIN number. So unless/until they expand the recall, even though this happened to me, I wouldn't be eligible for whatever the fix is...

Keep checking the recall with your VIN. The official recall notice says ~21,000 vehicles are affected and that 100% of those are expected to require a fix. Happened to us in December, then another weird, tho different, issue where all notifications (speed, level of charge, others) disappeared and I was advised to “drive more carefully”. Resolved with stop and restart