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2021 ID.4 Pro S AWD w/Gradient - Kings Red
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have had my CPO 2021 ID.4 AWD Pro S for 8 days now and have put on ~120 miles so have had some time to get a hang of things. Here are some observations thus far.

Pros:
- Power is incredible. Just like my E-Golf the lack of ICE noise makes it feel slower than it is and its far to easy to speed in this bad boy.

- Comfortable as heck. VW has always done seats and ergonomics well, I didn't have to fuss around too much with seats, mirrors and steering wheel position to get myself comfortable.

- Handling (see con as well). For how heavy this thing is it handles quite well and drives smaller than its weight and size would suggest.

- Styling. I'm not a fan of 'look at me styling' so just like my E-Golf I like to fly under the radar. The ID.4 follows typical VW styling where it will still look good in 10-15 years or even longer down the road. Good comparison is look at how the 1999-2004 Jetta still appears relatively modern.

Cons:
- Software. Have not had any real issues but would like some of the features of the 3.1 software like the consumption display on the instrument cluster. How this was excluded from the get go is beyond me.

- Heavy heavy handling. Per handling pro above, while it handles well it still shows its weight. The truffle shuffle after coming to a stop is not very VW. During braking I'm used to just the squat going back up and stopping - the ID.4 jiggles around a bit after the squat rebounds.

- Headlight controls. My commute to work is in lighting on the cusp of auto lights kicking on, my E-Golf I would be able to switch the lights straight off so they wouldn't be turning on/off a dozen plus times in a 15 minute drive. Learned you can't do this in the ID.4 - if you turn them "off" as soon as you accelerate they just flip back to auto so my commute consists of my lights popping on and off every minute or two. Would love off to be a true off.

- Efficiency. I miss the 4.1-4.2 mi/KWH of my E-Golf. For that car being designed for EV/ICE/Hybrid it was efficient as heck. I'm kind of surprised this purpose built EV is ~25% less efficient.

Overall:

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I am still pleased as punch. My E-Golf was my testing of the waters and that car was probably one of the best I have ever owned. My ownership experience with the E-Golf made my ok with going all in on the ID.4. Look forward to 4-5 years of motoring with my 2021.

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Nice color. As to being 25% less efficient, it is probably 25% heavier. No mention of your typical driving but if it is mostly urban you can probable improve somewhat. Still not bad compared to F150 Lightning, MachE, Rivian etc.
 

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Have had my CPO 2021 ID.4 AWD Pro S for 8 days now and have put on ~120 miles so have had some time to get a hang of things. Here are some observations thus far.

Pros:
- Power is incredible. Just like my E-Golf the lack of ICE noise makes it feel slower than it is and its far to easy to speed in this bad boy.

- Comfortable as heck. VW has always done seats and ergonomics well, I didn't have to fuss around too much with seats, mirrors and steering wheel position to get myself comfortable.

- Handling (see con as well). For how heavy this thing is it handles quite well and drives smaller than its weight and size would suggest.

- Styling. I'm not a fan of 'look at me styling' so just like my E-Golf I like to fly under the radar. The ID.4 follows typical VW styling where it will still look good in 10-15 years or even longer down the road. Good comparison is look at how the 1999-2004 Jetta still appears relatively modern.

Cons:
- Software. Have not had any real issues but would like some of the features of the 3.1 software like the consumption display on the instrument cluster. How this was excluded from the get go is beyond me.

- Heavy heavy handling. Per handling pro above, while it handles well it still shows its weight. The truffle shuffle after coming to a stop is not very VW. During braking I'm used to just the squat going back up and stopping - the ID.4 jiggles around a bit after the squat rebounds.

- Headlight controls. My commute to work is in lighting on the cusp of auto lights kicking on, my E-Golf I would be able to switch the lights straight off so they wouldn't be turning on/off a dozen plus times in a 15 minute drive. Learned you can't do this in the ID.4 - if you turn them "off" as soon as you accelerate they just flip back to auto so my commute consists of my lights popping on and off every minute or two. Would love off to be a true off.

- Efficiency. I miss the 4.1-4.2 mi/KWH of my E-Golf. For that car being designed for EV/ICE/Hybrid it was efficient as heck. I'm kind of surprised this purpose built EV is ~25% less efficient.

Overall:

-
I am still pleased as punch. My E-Golf was my testing of the waters and that car was probably one of the best I have ever owned. My ownership experience with the E-Golf made my ok with going all in on the ID.4. Look forward to 4-5 years of motoring with my 2021.

View attachment 15407
How much extra did the CPO set you back?
 

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I have the same EXACT car but 2022. You are not missing anything without the 3.1 software. None of those additional features work well enough to covet the 3.1 software.

I’ve compared the charging curves between the 2021 and the 2022 model years, and the 2021 charges about 10 kW faster above about 40% SOC. Yes, the 2022 can charge at 170+ kW but only under 25%. At 25% SOC, the charging speed goes to 150 kW, and by 30% SOC, the 2021 and the 2022 charge at the same speed. Anything above 45% SOC, and the 2021 charges more quickly. All in all, if you were to go from 10% to 80% SOC, I would guess the time you would spend to charge is about the same between the 2021 and the 2022. With the scarce DC charging infrastructure, I personally don’t feel comfortable riding the 10% to 60% SOC range. Instead, I ride 20+% to 100%, in which case it would take the same time to charge your car as mine or, your car would charge even faster.

I just came from a 550-mile trip from a northern Atlanta suburb to Huntsville, AL, and it was not a pretty picture with what I had to go through vis-à-vis charging. My wife is pissed (this is our third long road trip in the ID.4 in 7 weeks). We have two EVs now and no ICEV. She is demanding we trade in one of our EVs for an ICE SUV. Yes, it’s that bad. For around town, the ID.4 is a great vehicle. For road trips, not so much. The three deficiencies are: scarcity of the CCS charging infrastructure (not specific to the ID.4), short range of the ID.4, and slow charging speeds.

The two axioms with the EV travel that everyone pushes are completely wrong IMO when it comes to non-Tesla-EV long-distance travel:
1. Ride the lower half of the battery SOC. In theory, this makes sense. In todays’s reality, this doesn’t get you far off major interstates.
2. Never charge to 100%. After the first one and a half trips, I found that you should ALWAYS charge the ID.4 to 100% when leaving for a long road trip or while on a long road trip. The extra 25 minutes that you spend charging from 80% to 100% will save your bacon multiple times if you are venturing away from major highways.

My last two trips were to Orlando and to Huntsville. Orlando only had one DC charger with 6 stalls (this is Orlando, for crying out loud). We wasted 6 hours over the course of a three-day weekend just driving to the DC charger in Orlando, waiting in line, and getting a charge). We also put an extra 150 miles on the ID.4 while doing this. Huntsville has exactly ZERO DC chargers. The closest DC charger to Huntsville is 35 miles away in Athens, AL. That’s a 70-miles round-trip (in the wrong direction) and two hours of wasted time just to get a charge so that you can drive back to Atlanta.

Traveling in the ID.4 is akin intentionally complicating one’s life. With the current state of DC charging, the EV should have at a minimum 350 miles worth of real range. The range of 450 miles would make the EV travel feasible and similar to the ICEV travel. At 260 miles, the ID.4 is not a viable long road trip vehicle in the US or Canada. If you are retired and time is not an issue, the ID.4 can get you into most places in populated areas (but it may take twice as long as an ICEV). But, if you value time, the ID.4 is not a road trip vehicle you would want to use.

At this time, long road trip EV travel in the US and Canada means either Tesla (due to the Supercharger network) or Lucid (due to its long battery range). Every other EV on the market today is not a viable long road trip vehicle for people with jobs. For commuting, the ID.4 is brilliant.
 

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Orlando only had one DC charger with 6 stalls (this is Orlando, for crying out loud).
What app were you using to find chargers? I see more than a dozen DC chargers in Orlando, albeit only 1 Electrify America. Based on your complaint, you might be better off spending the $10-15 to charge at a non-EA from time to time, instead of wasting time and distance hunting down an EA charger.
 

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What app were you using to find chargers? I see more than a dozen DC chargers in Orlando, albeit only 1 Electrify America. Based on your complaint, you might be better off spending the $10-15 to charge at a non-EA from time to time, instead of wasting time and distance hunting down an EA charger.
All others are 50 kW (or lower) chargers with only one (or two) stalls and as far from the hotel (or farther) as the EA charger. When you only have enough charge to get yourself to a DC charger, and you have a choice of a location with 6 stalls over a location with one stall, you don’t go to a location with one stall. It could be broken with no other stalls as a backup or you may find two or three other EVs waiting in line because they don’t have enough charge remaining to get them to another location. If you have two EVs in front of you at a 50 kW charger, you are stuck there for several hours.

It also depends on where you stay. We had to stay in a particular hotel (which didn’t have overnight L2 chargers), so our only feasible charging place was the sole EA charging site at the Mall of Florida, and even there we had to wait in line every time we got there.
 

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I have the same EXACT car but 2022. You are not missing anything without the 3.1 software. None of those additional features work well enough to covet the 3.1 software.

I’ve compared the charging curves between the 2021 and the 2022 model years, and the 2021 charges about 10 kW faster above about 40% SOC. Yes, the 2022 can charge at 170+ kW but only under 25%. At 25% SOC, the charging speed goes to 150 kW, and by 30% SOC, the 2021 and the 2022 charge at the same speed. Anything above 45% SOC, and the 2021 charges more quickly. All in all, if you were to go from 10% to 80% SOC, I would guess the time you would spend to charge is about the same between the 2021 and the 2022. With the scarce DC charging infrastructure, I personally don’t feel comfortable riding the 10% to 60% SOC range. Instead, I ride 20+% to 100%, in which case it would take the same time to charge your car as mine or, your car would charge even faster.

I just came from a 550-mile trip from a northern Atlanta suburb to Huntsville, AL, and it was not a pretty picture with what I had to go through vis-à-vis charging. My wife is pissed (this is our third long road trip in the ID.4 in 7 weeks). We have two EVs now and no ICEV. She is demanding we trade in one of our EVs for an ICE SUV. Yes, it’s that bad. For around town, the ID.4 is a great vehicle. For road trips, not so much. The three deficiencies are: scarcity of the CCS charging infrastructure (not specific to the ID.4), short range of the ID.4, and slow charging speeds.

The two axioms with the EV travel that everyone pushes are completely wrong IMO when it comes to non-Tesla-EV long-distance travel:
1. Ride the lower half of the battery SOC. In theory, this makes sense. In todays’s reality, this doesn’t get you far off major interstates.
2. Never charge to 100%. After the first one and a half trips, I found that you should ALWAYS charge the ID.4 to 100% when leaving for a long road trip or while on a long road trip. The extra 25 minutes that you spend charging from 80% to 100% will save your bacon multiple times if you are venturing away from major highways.

My last two trips were to Orlando and to Huntsville. Orlando only had one DC charger with 6 stalls (this is Orlando, for crying out loud). We wasted 6 hours over the course of a three-day weekend just driving to the DC charger in Orlando, waiting in line, and getting a charge). We also put an extra 150 miles on the ID.4 while doing this. Huntsville has exactly ZERO DC chargers. The closest DC charger to Huntsville is 35 miles away in Athens, AL. That’s a 70-miles round-trip (in the wrong direction) and two hours of wasted time just to get a charge so that you can drive back to Atlanta.

Traveling in the ID.4 is akin intentionally complicating one’s life. With the current state of DC charging, the EV should have at a minimum 350 miles worth of real range. The range of 450 miles would make the EV travel feasible and similar to the ICEV travel. At 260 miles, the ID.4 is not a viable long road trip vehicle in the US or Canada. If you are retired and time is not an issue, the ID.4 can get you into most places in populated areas (but it may take twice as long as an ICEV). But, if you value time, the ID.4 is not a road trip vehicle you would want to use.

At this time, long road trip EV travel in the US and Canada means either Tesla (due to the Supercharger network) or Lucid (due to its long battery range). Every other EV on the market today is not a viable long road trip vehicle for people with jobs.
This all sounds like a pretty sub-optimal experience overall on that trip. Sorry you’re having to go through some inconvenience and difficulty.

However, I‘m cautious of drawing broad conclusions about the ID.4 and other EVs based on particular experiences with EA charging in a specific region. I live in the northeast, and my road trip experiences with EA chargers have been nearly all positive. DC fast chargers are well-spaced up here and have been mostly working and available when I need them on road trips throughout New England. I realize, however, that people who live elsewhere may have different experiences, so I wouldn’t extrapolate my own regional experiences and conclude that EA charging (or other DCFC) is mostly positive or even mostly acceptable everywhere else in the country where I don’t live and drive.

In other words, people will experience an EV like the ID.4 on a road trip differently depending on how well the charging infrastructure has been been built out and supported in a particular region or across a particular route, which will be different based on how much a particular state has chosen to support the development of EVs over the past 4-5 years or so. There are still a lot of states, especially in the south and midwest, that haven’t been particularly supportive of EVs and EV infrastructure over the years and are only just now really ramping up with the availability of federal funds via the NEVI program just getting started. So hopefully that situation will be improving in the coming 1-3 years.

Also, as a side note, I don’t think most people on this forum generally say “never charge to 100%”; it’s more like “avoid charging to 100% unless you need the added range, like for a road trip, in which case it’s fine.”
 

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I have the same EXACT car but 2022. You are not missing anything without the 3.1 software. None of those additional features work well enough to covet the 3.1 software.

I’ve compared the charging curves between the 2021 and the 2022 model years, and the 2021 charges about 10 kW faster above about 40% SOC. Yes, the 2022 can charge at 170+ kW but only under 25%. At 25% SOC, the charging speed goes to 150 kW, and by 30% SOC, the 2021 and the 2022 charge at the same speed. Anything above 45% SOC, and the 2021 charges more quickly. All in all, if you were to go from 10% to 80% SOC, I would guess the time you would spend to charge is about the same between the 2021 and the 2022. With the scarce DC charging infrastructure, I personally don’t feel comfortable riding the 10% to 60% SOC range. Instead, I ride 20+% to 100%, in which case it would take the same time to charge your car as mine or, your car would charge even faster.

I just came from a 550-mile trip from a northern Atlanta suburb to Huntsville, AL, and it was not a pretty picture with what I had to go through vis-à-vis charging. My wife is pissed (this is our third long road trip in the ID.4 in 7 weeks). We have two EVs now and no ICEV. She is demanding we trade in one of our EVs for an ICE SUV. Yes, it’s that bad. For around town, the ID.4 is a great vehicle. For road trips, not so much. The three deficiencies are: scarcity of the CCS charging infrastructure (not specific to the ID.4), short range of the ID.4, and slow charging speeds.

The two axioms with the EV travel that everyone pushes are completely wrong IMO when it comes to non-Tesla-EV long-distance travel:
1. Ride the lower half of the battery SOC. In theory, this makes sense. In todays’s reality, this doesn’t get you far off major interstates.
2. Never charge to 100%. After the first one and a half trips, I found that you should ALWAYS charge the ID.4 to 100% when leaving for a long road trip or while on a long road trip. The extra 25 minutes that you spend charging from 80% to 100% will save your bacon multiple times if you are venturing away from major highways.

My last two trips were to Orlando and to Huntsville. Orlando only had one DC charger with 6 stalls (this is Orlando, for crying out loud). We wasted 6 hours over the course of a three-day weekend just driving to the DC charger in Orlando, waiting in line, and getting a charge). We also put an extra 150 miles on the ID.4 while doing this. Huntsville has exactly ZERO DC chargers. The closest DC charger to Huntsville is 35 miles away in Athens, AL. That’s a 70-miles round-trip (in the wrong direction) and two hours of wasted time just to get a charge so that you can drive back to Atlanta.

Traveling in the ID.4 is akin intentionally complicating one’s life. With the current state of DC charging, the EV should have at a minimum 350 miles worth of real range. The range of 450 miles would make the EV travel feasible and similar to the ICEV travel. At 260 miles, the ID.4 is not a viable long road trip vehicle in the US or Canada. If you are retired and time is not an issue, the ID.4 can get you into most places in populated areas (but it may take twice as long as an ICEV). But, if you value time, the ID.4 is not a road trip vehicle you would want to use.

At this time, long road trip EV travel in the US and Canada means either Tesla (due to the Supercharger network) or Lucid (due to its long battery range). Every other EV on the market today is not a viable long road trip vehicle for people with jobs.
I originally purchased this car thinking it would be my road trip car, mainly for my yearly snowbird trip to Florida. After some issues on a 400+ mile trip to my son's house in Pittsburg, and some months later realizing I didn't want the inconvenience of charging, I changed my plans.
I know many folks road trip this car and I give them credit. I still think this is a great vehicle and my wife loves it and uses it for her 70 mile RT commute. At one point I thought I might be taking the ID.4 to Florida this year because of increased charging speed with the update, (Ha, if it ever comes) and a more mature EA network, but I've realized the ice car is a better option for me. I'll wave to you guys charging at Sheetz while I'm gassing up!
 

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I originally purchased this car thinking it would be my road trip car, mainly for my yearly snowbird trip to Florida. After some issues on a 400+ mile trip to my son's house in Pittsburg, and some months later realizing I didn't want the inconvenience of charging, I changed my plans.
I know many folks road trip this car and I give them credit. I still think this is a great vehicle and my wife loves it and uses it for her 70 mile RT commute. At one point I thought I might be taking the ID.4 to Florida this year because of increased charging speed with the update, (Ha, if it ever comes) and a more mature EA network, but I've realized the ice car is a better option for me. I'll wave to you guys charging at Sheetz while I'm gassing up!
Can we do a group buy for the Li Auto Li One or Li L9? Because this is exactly what we need here in the US for the next 10 years. These vehicles can't get to North America soon enough. 100 miles of real-life electric range and over 600 miles of total range (with the on-board gasoline generator). Perfect solution for both commuting and roadtripping. I'm actually seriously considering importing an L9 from China.

Why can't VW release something like this? They are now building both EVs and have been building ICEVs for almost 100 years. They could release an SUV like this within a year. There is not a single PHEV sold in the US right now that's worth buying because the most they can do is 35 miles of electric range, and even that is on a single underpowered electric motor that can't even accelerate properly. The Li Auto's vehicle are fully electrically propelled with two electric motors even when the generator is in use. I think the Europeans do not comprehend how we drive here in the US. While the ID.4 may be completely fine in Europe for roadtripping, they are not suitable for this task in North America.
 

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2021 ID.4 Pro S AWD w/Gradient - Kings Red
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Truthseeker. Fortunately road trips are not really in the cards for me, not because of my choice of an EV but mainly because I abhor sitting behind the wheel for anything longer than 2ish hours. Anything that is longer than a 2-3 hour drive I am booking a flight on Delta mainly because living in Atlanta I have non-stop connectivity to pretty much anywhere I want or need to go. I will say I might need to make a trip to St. Marys, GA (~300 miles) to pick up a family heirloom chest and looking at A Better Route Planner its kind of grim as there is one Electrify America station in Cordele, GA along the route, if anything goes wrong there I am going to be having to seek out alternatives that may not be a fast charger.
 

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Truthseeker. Fortunately road trips are not really in the cards for me, not because of my choice of an EV but mainly because I abhor sitting behind the wheel for anything longer than 2ish hours. Anything that is longer than a 2-3 hour drive I am booking a flight on Delta mainly because living in Atlanta I have non-stop connectivity to pretty much anywhere I want or need to go. I will say I might need to make a trip to St. Marys, GA (~300 miles) to pick up a family heirloom chest and looking at A Better Route Planner its kind of grim as there is one Electrify America station in Cordele, GA along the route, if anything goes wrong there I am going to be having to seek out alternatives that may not be a fast charger.
I hate driving, but even more so, I hate driving to the Atlanta airport, parking, taking a shuttle, getting through security, being shoved in coach, sitting like a sardine in a can for hours, RENTING A CAR, and so on.

My suggestion for the road trip. Always charge to 100%.
 

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There are still a lot of states, especially in the south and midwest, that haven’t been particularly supportive of EVs and EV infrastructure over the years and are only just now really ramping up with the availability of federal funds via the NEVI program just getting started.
Let’s go north. The Dakotas, Montana, Wyoming. Would you venture out in an EV, especially in the winter?

Or how about you drive north of Portland Maine, and try to reach the next DC charger in Canada?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I hate driving, but even more so, I hate driving to the Atlanta airport, parking, taking a shuttle, getting through security, being shoved in coach, sitting like a sardine in a can for hours, RENTING A CAR, and so on.

My suggestion for the road trip. Always charge to 100%.
I have CLEAR (highly recommend for ATL - I can make it from Delta check in to T gates in under 10 mins), have not had too much issue with Peachy parking for domestic and their indoor EV rates are quite reasonable. If you fly international the airport garage there rivals off site pricing but EV charging spaces are typically full.

Side note since you are in ATL. Jim Ellis VW Chamblee on P'Tree Industrial has always been fantastic for us on service and sales side, they are actually building an entirely new store that per my sales guy is going to be the premier VW dealer in North America. Its a multi-story affair going up where I think Mazda dealer was between them and Maserati - looks like its going to be quite fancy for a VW store.
 

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It's interesting to see a different perspective on the Orlando area, as I live there. Personally, never had an issue getting a charger when I needed one, granted as mentioned many of them are EVGo or Shell Recharge 50kW units. The other large mall vs Florida Mall is Mall at Millennia, and they have several ChargePoint units that are ~7kw. There is also an EA station just south of town on I4 at Love's truck stop. I've used it a few times and never have I seen anyone else there. I don't frequent Florida Mall, so can't attest to the busy-ness of that one. Tesla does have better penetration in this area for charger footprint, so I guess we can hope they switch to their open network soon.

All of the Florida Turnpike rest stops also now have charging stations for both brands. The downside is the CCS ones have different companies as you traverse, so takes multiple apps to go from one end to the other. But on Sunday evenings the Tesla ones can be packed with lines.

Florida is a state these days in deep denial/split personality, typical of the rest of the country (not trying to get into politics, just stating facts)... there is a fast growing population of folks in the cities and on the 'tech belt' across the middle of the state that are going EV at a higher rate. But the rest of the state, largely rural like where I grew up in Missouri and Iowa, aren't interested... in the cars or in funding infrastructure to build out charging stations. I'll leave it at that.

The same chicken and egg problem as many other places.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It's interesting to see a different perspective on the Orlando area, as I live there. Personally, never had an issue getting a charger when I needed one, granted as mentioned many of them are EVGo or Shell Recharge 50kW units. The other large mall vs Florida Mall is Mall at Millennia, and they have several ChargePoint units that are ~7kw. There is also an EA station just south of town on I4 at Love's truck stop. I've used it a few times and never have I seen anyone else there. I don't frequent Florida Mall, so can't attest to the busy-ness of that one. Tesla does have better penetration in this area for charger footprint, so I guess we can hope they switch to their open network soon.

All of the Florida Turnpike rest stops also now have charging stations for both brands. The downside is the CCS ones have different companies as you traverse, so takes multiple apps to go from one end to the other. But on Sunday evenings the Tesla ones can be packed with lines.

Florida is a state these days in deep denial/split personality, typical of the rest of the country (not trying to get into politics, just stating facts)... there is a fast growing population of folks in the cities and on the 'tech belt' across the middle of the state that are going EV at a higher rate. But the rest of the state, largely rural like where I grew up in Missouri and Iowa, aren't interested... in the cars or in funding infrastructure to build out charging stations. I'll leave it at that.

The same chicken and egg problem as many other places.
Florida is quite interesting in that regard because it is prime climate for EV's where they don't have to worry about cold temp range hit. Yeah they have the heat to contend with but air conditioning does not slam the range anywhere near what the resistance heater does.

Like you not talking politics but it's very ironic when the folks who scream about energy independence and not sending $$$ for foreign oil also then complain about EV's whose energy clearly cannot cross oceans. It's the most domestic thing ever to charge at home - yeah power companies can suck in certain areas but that $$$ your are spending is very regional.
 

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Yeah, Florida is very odd, and maybe somewhat unique that way. Unlike say Missouri where my dad lives where outside of St Louis and Kansas City, the rest of the state is largely rural and even hilly towards the south,etc. where an EV is an obviously harder sell. Florida is warm, largely flat, and while there are plenty of politicial issues with the power companies in this state, they turn our largely reliable electricity from a variety of resources. You'd think given that, we'd be more in the vanguard... but politics trumps practicality.

Florida is quite interesting in that regard because it is prime climate for EV's where they don't have to worry about cold temp range hit. Yeah they have the heat to contend with but air conditioning does not slam the range anywhere near what the resistance heater does.
 

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For around town, the ID.4 is a great vehicle. For road trips, not so much. The three deficiencies are: scarcity of the CCS charging infrastructure (not specific to the ID.4), short range of the ID.4, and slow charging speeds.
IMO, the ID.4 is more aimed at attempting to be a good road trip car and for me, that makes it much less of a good around town car. It's too big, it's too heavy and both affect it's efficiency. Smaller and lighter, easier to park, better visibility are all keys to a great around town car. When you lean the windshield back so far that you must have larger A pillars to support the roof, visibility suffers - If the ID.4 isn't a good road trip car, I would suggest buying something else - Something smaller, lighter, easier to park, easier to get into and out of and easier to see out of

I've been driving a Mitsubishi iMiEV around town now for more than 10 years and it's still my every day driver - My ID.4 is reserved for longer trips. The Mitsu only has a 16 Kw battery so its very light by comparison, smaller all around, easier to park, much better visibility and it's the easiest car for ingress and egress this old man has ever driven and around town cars are frequently gotten into and out of many times. It's like a mini cargo truck - With the back seats folded flat, you can get a standard sized washer or dryer in the back and still close the hatch and it's not a tall lift to do so

You pick your poison, IMO - If you need (or want) 200 plus mile range, you give up much of what makes a car a good urban vehicle. Few cars can do an excellent job of both. For that reason (and a couple others) I'll be keeping both my urban car and my road trip car . . . . and, I have a gas powered Ford Transit Connect which does everything neither of my EV's can do 🤣
 

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IMO, the ID.4 is more aimed at attempting to be a good road trip car and for me, that makes it much less of a good around town car. It's too big, it's too heavy and both affect it's efficiency. Smaller and lighter, easier to park, better visibility are all keys to a great around town car. When you lean the windshield back so far that you must have larger A pillars to support the roof, visibility suffers - If the ID.4 isn't a good road trip car, I would suggest buying something else - Something smaller, lighter, easier to park, easier to get into and out of and easier to see out of

I've been driving a Mitsubishi iMiEV around town now for more than 10 years and it's still my every day driver - My ID.4 is reserved for longer trips. The Mitsu only has a 16 Kw battery so its very light by comparison, smaller all around, easier to park, much better visibility and it's the easiest car for ingress and egress this old man has ever driven and around town cars are frequently gotten into and out of many times. It's like a mini cargo truck - With the back seats folded flat, you can get a standard sized washer or dryer in the back and still close the hatch and it's not a tall lift to do so

You pick your poison, IMO - If you need (or want) 200 plus mile range, you give up much of what makes a car a good urban vehicle. Few cars can do an excellent job of both. For that reason (and a couple others) I'll be keeping both my urban car and my road trip car . . . . and, I have a gas powered Ford Transit Connect which does everything neither of my EV's can do 🤣
I disagree 100%. If you call the ID.4 too big a vehicle, we won’t be able to agree on much. It’s especially shocking that you live in the US. I can understand a European saying it’s too big, but not an American. One of my gripes is that it’s too small to be an SUV. For the US, it’s a compact around town CUV. For Europe, i can totally understand it being called a mid-size SUV. Their small apartments are the size of our large SUVs.
 

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I have gone on one long trip in my old ID.4 and many 200+ mile ones and I think the ID.4 is the perfect road-trip car. However if you are a rush-rush type person then you shouldn’t ever be going somewhere where you need to charge on the road. Time is money!!!
 
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