Just a FYI some owners have been able to get ~2k under MSRP on their FEs. So you may want that data point in your calculations.
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Pro owners update
Hi Everyone! My pro moonstone grey ID.4 has arrived at the dealer and I will be picking it up in the next few days. Before I do, I need to do a gut check to make sure I don't mind giving up the niceties of the Pro S/FE. It's close to a $5k difference after tax and fees between the pro and pro s, which is pretty significant. However, it's an expensive car that I plan to keep for awhile, so I want to get it right.
Would any regular Pro owners out there mind telling me about their experience with the car? Do you notice the absence of some of the perks of the higher trims? Would you do anything differently with an opportunity to do it over again? Thanks for your input!
Would any regular Pro owners out there mind telling me about their experience with the car? Do you notice the absence of some of the perks of the higher trims? Would you do anything differently with an opportunity to do it over again? Thanks for your input!
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Yea that's a good suggestion. I've been seeing that on the forum but I haven't had any luck with dealers in my area. I'm also not a fan of the white steering wheel and would prefer 19" wheels to the 20".Just a FYI some owners have been able to get ~2k under MSRP on their FEs. So you may want that data point in your calculations.
Well those are certainly reasons to go with a Pro or Pro S. We were looking at the Pro S because of the white wheel, but we hopped on a FE because we got it under MSRP but the white wheel fell under "not ideal but not a deal breaker" to us. The 20" wheels fell under "I know the ride is a little stiffer and the tires are more expensive, but it looks so pretty."Yea that's a good suggestion. I've been seeing that on the forum but I haven't had any luck with dealers in my area. I'm also not a fan of the white steering wheel and would prefer 19" wheels to the 20".
I am not an owner (yet) but have a Model 3 with the glass roof. That feature is the big differentiator between Pro and Pro S/FE in my opinion. Some people don't care about glass roofs but it really makes a huge difference in the feel of the car. The other things I would miss on the Pro would be the rear seat passthrough and massaging seats but I could deal with not having those items.
Go for the Pro. A solid roof is better, and so is the ride of 19s. If you DO decide to spend more money then wait a little and get the AWD.
Not that I'd pay for it, but to me the AWD is worth 7k more than the RWD.
Not that I'd pay for it, but to me the AWD is worth 7k more than the RWD.
Very much agree on the roof. We were mostly considering a Pro until we test drove the FE and saw the giant moonroof and basically fell in love with it. It makes the car feel bigger but the effect is especially pronounced in the back. So IMO the moonroof is a better value if you have frequent backseat passengers, for what it's worth.I am not an owner (yet) but have a Model 3 with the glass roof. That feature is the big differentiator between Pro and Pro S/FE in my opinion. Some people don't care about glass roofs but it really makes a huge difference in the feel of the car. The other things I would miss on the Pro would be the rear seat passthrough and massaging seats but I could deal with not having those items.
I have to agree. Having owned a Flex with a huge "Vista Roof" for the past 9 years, I always appreciate how that slab of glass opens up that cavernous car, despite (front the interior) the glass being partitioned into 4 discrete sections. My allroad wagon had a similar glass roof with retractable shade, and I really missed it when I changed to the smaller more conventionally sized sunroof on the i3. When I saw the ID.4's implementation I was awed by it -- not only the sense of openness is provides inside the cabin, but how from the exterior is seamlessly integrates with our FE's black roof. It really contributes to the interior ambiance, and the shade makes all the difference on a particularly hot day.
I am suspicious about those saying they got that good of a deal. There are many ways to hide money in a car deal. True Car doesn't lie and average transaction prices are close to MSRP in almost every region. Some are higher than MSRP and there have been 5 FEs that have sold at Manhiem auctions recently for $45000+.Just a FYI some owners have been able to get ~2k under MSRP on their FEs. So you may want that data point in your calculations.
For me it had a lot to do with what regret I could live with. Could I look at the 10" screen and think "am I missing something?" In reality, I probably could but I'll never know. Could I live without the glass roof? The back massage, the 20" wheels? Probably. It kinda came down to everything but mostly the chrome trim and the larger screen but I would have passed on the gradient if a Pro S was available instead. I couldn't have given up the larger screen. I'm a tech nerd in the end.
I haven't heard many people say they prefer the solid roof over the glass. Would you mind elaborating on why you have that preference? Thanks!Go for the Pro. A solid roof is better, and so is the ride of 19s. If you DO decide to spend more money then wait a little and get the AWD.
Not that I'd pay for it, but to me the AWD is worth 7k more than the RWD.
I am not a fan of sunroofs.I haven't heard many people say they prefer the solid roof over the glass. Would you mind elaborating on why you have that preference? Thanks!
1. A rock on the highway will ding your steel roof but shatter your panoramic roof.
2. Glass panoramic roofs are heavier than steel roofs. The glass plus the added structural components around the perimeter add weight ( in the wrong place).
3. Possibly too much heat in the summer months causing the A/C to work harder, reducing range? Conversely, the sunroof may reduce heating needs in the winter months.
4. Too much glare while driving? Numerous times I ride with folks who love to open the shade on their sunroof while driving and, as a passenger, the light is in my eyes and I can't see anything. I suppose one could always keep the screen closed, if preferred.
5. Sunroofs often let in more wind noise than solid steel roofs, particularly when there are roof rails. This might be more noticeable in otherwise very quite cars.
6. My guess is that the large retracing screen will be problematic over time.
I can not comment on whether the sunroof in this vehicle adds or subtracts from headroom.
#2 is indisputably true. I can say that #5 is not a factor at all because this sunroof doesn't open. I have experienced no additional noise that I can attribute to the sunroof. #3 may be true, but it's also possible to mitigate against this by closing the screen. #1, 4, and 6 are personal risk type decisions.I am not a fan of sunroofs.
1. A rock on the highway will ding your steel roof but shatter your panoramic roof.
2. Glass panoramic roofs are heavier than steel roofs. The glass plus the added structural components around the perimeter add weight ( in the wrong place).
3. Possibly too much heat in the summer months causing the A/C to work harder, reducing range? Conversely, the sunroof may reduce heating needs in the winter months.
4. Too much glare while driving? Numerous times I ride with folks who love to open the shade on their sunroof while driving and, as a passenger, the light is in my eyes and I can't see anything. I suppose one could always keep the screen closed, if preferred.
5. Sunroofs often let in more wind noise than solid steel roofs, particularly when there are roof rails. This might be more noticeable in otherwise very quite cars.
6. My guess is that the large retracing screen will be problematic over time.
I can not comment on whether the sunroof in this vehicle adds or subtracts from headroom.
I'm almost positive that the sunroof does not actually add or subtract headroom, I believe. It just gives the impression of more headroom because seeing outside the car gives the inside a more airy feel.
Some interesting points! Thanks 🙂I am not a fan of sunroofs.
1. A rock on the highway will ding your steel roof but shatter your panoramic roof.
2. Glass panoramic roofs are heavier than steel roofs. The glass plus the added structural components around the perimeter add weight ( in the wrong place).
3. Possibly too much heat in the summer months causing the A/C to work harder, reducing range? Conversely, the sunroof may reduce heating needs in the winter months.
4. Too much glare while driving? Numerous times I ride with folks who love to open the shade on their sunroof while driving and, as a passenger, the light is in my eyes and I can't see anything. I suppose one could always keep the screen closed, if preferred.
5. Sunroofs often let in more wind noise than solid steel roofs, particularly when there are roof rails. This might be more noticeable in otherwise very quite cars.
6. My guess is that the large retracing screen will be problematic over time.
I can not comment on whether the sunroof in this vehicle adds or subtracts from headroom.
1. As a count point, over 30 collective years of sheets of glass over our head ownership (with rooftop bike racks on many of those vehicles) and not a single crack or chip, though three windshield replacement on that same group of cars.1. A rock on the highway will ding your steel roof but shatter your panoramic roof.
2. Glass panoramic roofs are heavier than steel roofs. The glass plus the added structural components around the perimeter add weight ( in the wrong place).
I can not comment on whether the sunroof in this vehicle adds or subtracts from headroom.
One of those, an 06 Jetta, had a mechanical problem. Cable snapped. We took that car in to an upholstery shop to repair the sagging headliner, and the guy there was able to repair it for under $100.
2. I've heard this argument about weight, and I'm sure there's validity to it, but it's fairly well minimized / offset by the heavy EV battery under the floor. Plus, this ain't no sports car.
As for headroom differences, all you have to do is finger press the headliner on a steel roofed model. If it moves, there's dead space, and therefore less head room vs. a sheet of glass. But if anybody taller than 6' is riding in the back, their head may be under the transition from glass to upholstered, so there's the potential for reduced clearance there, but as a 6 footer who has ridden in back, I fit fine.
It is great that your personal experience is that you never had a problem with glass sunroofs but there problems that have been well documented. Some companies have moved from tempered glass to laminated glass for sunroofs. I am not sure if VW has made that move. Apparently the glass roofs break due to accidents, road debris and thermal expansion issues.1. As a count point, over 30 collective years of sheets of glass over our head ownership (with rooftop bike racks on many of those vehicles) and not a single crack or chip, though three windshield replacement on that same group of cars.
One of those, an 06 Jetta, had a mechanical problem. Cable snapped. We took that car in to an upholstery shop to repair the sagging headliner, and the guy there was able to repair it for under $100.
2. I've heard this argument about weight, and I'm sure there's validity to it, but it's fairly well minimized / offset by the heavy EV battery under the floor. Plus, this ain't no sports car.
As for headroom differences, all you have to do is finger press the headliner on a steel roofed model. If it moves, there's dead space, and therefore less head room vs. a sheet of glass. But if anybody taller than 6' is riding in the back, their head may be under the transition from glass to upholstered, so there's the potential for reduced clearance there, but as a 6 footer who has ridden in back, I fit fine.
Which Automakers Use Laminated Glass to Reduce the Risk of Exploding Sunroofs?
Consumer Reports says that some, but not all, automakers are now using laminated glass in their panoramic sunroofs, which could reduce the risk of exploding sunroofs.
www.consumerreports.org
Weight is added when a car is equipped with a sunroof ( much worse for convertible tops). The sunroof combined with power seats, power liftgate ( I am not able think of any other items contributing to added weight) for the Pro S but the EPA has rated the Pros 10 miles for range than the Pro. That is not a really big deal but added weight is more of a factor for a BEV than and ICE equipped car.
That's why I'm sharing. Have you personally suffered broken sunroof glass, or "have you heard?" Sure, it's glass, it can break, it can be replaced. But I'm suggesting breakage is fairly uncommon, despite the few stories that get the attention of the internet.It is great that your personal experience is that you never had a problem with glass sunroofs...
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Weight is added when a car is equipped with a sunroof...
I'm expecting the ID.4 sunroof adds around 100 pounds. As you listed, there are many things that contribute to the ID.4's nearly 4,700 pounds., some optional equipment. 2% is 2%, but it's still only 2%.
The beetle slicktops has more room than those with sunroofs because the glass is level and the mechanism is cut into the roof whereas the metal was rounded.
One thing to note regarding weight and EVs is that as the weight class of the vehicle increases weight increases are a smaller proportion of the total weight. That is, something like the glass roof will impact a lighter BEV more.
One thing to note regarding weight and EVs is that as the weight class of the vehicle increases weight increases are a smaller proportion of the total weight. That is, something like the glass roof will impact a lighter BEV more.
The FE weighs 106 pounds more than the Pro. The main item that adds more weight is the 20" wheels versus the 19", and you missed this. Spinning weight of the wheels+tires is a bigger factor than static weight, and accounts for most of the lower range, and is well documented by Tesla. Using ABRP which accounts for weight with very good modelling, you can see that adding a static load of 106 pounds to an ID.4 will lower your range by <1 mile. The sunroof adds maybe 20 pounds so is not much of a factor.The sunroof combined with power seats, power liftgate ( I am not able think of any other items contributing to added weight) for the Pro S but the EPA has rated the Pros 10 miles for range than the Pro.
You need to check more closely/carefully at the VW website. The Pro S comes with 19 inch wheels as well as the Pro. So what explains the EPA rating of 10 miles less for the Pro S vs. the Pro? The 1st and Pro S have the same range rating even though they have different size wheels. So your spinning wheel explanation is not adding up here.The FE weighs 106 pounds more than the Pro. The main item that adds more weight is the 20" wheels versus the 19", and you missed this. Spinning weight of the wheels+tires is a bigger factor than static weight, and accounts for most of the lower mileage, and is well documented by Tesla. Using ABRP which accounts for weight with very good modelling, you can see that adding a static load of 106 pounds to an ID.4 will lower your range by <1 mile. The sunroof adds maybe 20 pounds so is not much of a factor.
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