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Hi, Dealer said my Pure Gray/Galaxy AWD Pro S Plus is on his computer for delivery between Dec 17 and Jan 9. It also said “Draft ETA”, whatever that means. Could be my Christmas present! Hoping so.
Did your status move from 10 in the order status viewer? I have a RWD plus on order and it's either going to be produced before the AWDs, or way after. So this might mean the car indeed won't make it in 2022. And in that case I might as well just get an Ioniq 5.
(I actually don't understand why most people choose speed over the extra 20-25 miles range)
 

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In my case, I didn't order and AWD for the extra quickness, it was for the better weather performance and because 255 miles vs 275 miles wasn't a significant enough jump in range for it to be meaningful for my situation. My long term plan is to replace my second car (which is gas powered) in 4 to 5 years with one of whatever new electrics are out at the time, and I'm hoping 350-ish miles range will be common by then, whether that's FWD, RWD, or AWD, but indeed, I would select whichever had the greater range. Then we'd use that longer range car for road trips, and the AWD ID.4 would be just the around town car, where it's current range is plenty.
 

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In my case, I didn't order and AWD for the extra quickness, it was for the better weather performance and because 255 miles vs 275 miles wasn't a significant enough jump in range for it to be meaningful for my situation. My long term plan is to replace my second car (which is gas powered) in 4 to 5 years with one of whatever new electrics are out at the time, and I'm hoping 350-ish miles range will be common by then, whether that's FWD, RWD, or AWD, but indeed, I would select whichever had the greater range. Then we'd use that longer range car for road trips, and the AWD ID.4 would be just the around town car, where it's current range is plenty.
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General use of course varies between people. If I still lived in areas with lots of snow I'd too prioritize AWD, but more than half the country sees little to no snow, yet based on the distribution of the orders, they still prefer AWD. To me the lack of temptation to drive faster is also a plus, which would probably translate to way more than the 20 mi range difference. But I digress. I just wonder if my RWD will be prioritized lower as the profit margin is likely narrower on it.
 

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I actually don't understand why most people choose speed over the extra 20-25 miles range
With AWD you don't lose any range unless you are accelerating really quick and the front motor turns on. I often get 280 mile range when its summer and I am not doing lots of quick starts. With RWD you lose range too if you like jackrabbit starts. Many other reasons:
Its much more than just getting AWD, we also get 50% more power, more regen, 0.6" more ground clearance, bigger anti-roll bar and bigger springs and dampers which give better handling, the trailer hitch and wiring harness, 2700 pound tow rating instead of 2200, heated windshield that also blocks heat in summer, and traction mode, and disabling the ESC. I think all those extra features may be worth the $3680 more to many people everywhere whether they need AWD or not.
 

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With AWD you don't lose any range unless you are accelerating really quick and the front motor turns on. I often get 280 mile range when its summer and I am not doing lots of quick starts. With RWD you lose range too if you like jackrabbit starts. Many other reasons:
The counter arguments are
1) Better turn radius on RWD (15.7' vs 18.2' on AWD).
2) Lower weight, so the same driving style would very likely mean similar range gains over EPA range (i.e. >300mi)
3) People talk about towing capabilities but present EVs are just not good for it. Not only the range loss, but the awkwardness at chargers too

I think the only consistent advantage with AWDs are heatpumps (like Ioniq 5) or heated windshield (ID.4). Again, I don't doubt that many people truly need the AWD, but I have my doubts about that number being ~75% of drivers.
 

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Lower weight, so the same driving style would very likely mean similar range gains over EPA range (i.e. >300mi)
340 pounds added weight for the AWD does not lower range by 20, ABRP (which has good models for that) says that much weight would result in 2-3 miles less range. Some youtube channel will probably get smart and do a side by side road test of AWD and RWD so they are exact comparable conditions. It has been shown in many tests on many cars that 19" wheels will get 10-20 miles more range (same tire brand) compared to 20" wheels. And the AWD could have some lower range due to a similar effect of more rotating mass.
 

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It has been shown in many tests on many cars that 19" wheels will get 10-20 miles more range (same tire brand) compared to 20" wheels. And the AWD could have some lower range due to a similar effect of more rotating mass.
I hope the range difference really isn't that significant (up to 20 miles) between the 19'' and 20'' wheels. I started a topic a few weeks back about the range of the AWD Pro vs AWD Pro S. My main concerns were the extra weight of the statement package add-ons (glass roof, motorized lift gate, power seats, etc) and the bigger wheels. The consensus was the extra weight of the statement package goodies was negligible, and that the bigger wheels at most would reduce the range by a few miles (someone posted the weight specifications, and the 20'' wheels were each only a few pounds heavier than the 19'' wheels). And it was pointed out to me that both trims were rated for the same range. All things being equal, I would prefer the AWD Pro over the AWD Pro S, but the answers I got there at least convinced me that I wouldn't see that big of a hit going with the AWD Pro S. Now your post is making me nervous :confused:.
 

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the bigger wheels at most would reduce the range by a few miles (someone posted the weight specifications, and the 20'' wheels were each only a few pounds heavier than the 19'' wheels)
The wheels are a few pounds heavier, and the tires are 7 pounds more on Alenza 20". There is different flex under load of the 2 sizes that accounts for even more of the diff. beyond that added "unsprung weight" which affects things much more than passenger weight. The best way to compare is side by side tests, and other accurate tests like a roll down test, that have been done on many other brands to compare wheel size versus range. Not for ID.4 yet that I have seen.
Here are some good quotes from a few days ago:
If you have 20 inches wheels that is more for the look but it hurts efficiency....
Depending on speed and road conditions it will have 14-20+ miles efficiency hits.
Edit: Tesla has done lots of good testing on each of their wheel sizes, and on many of their cars you lose 40 miles range going from 19 to 20s.
 

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340 pounds added weight for the AWD does not lower range by 20, ABRP (which has good models for that) says that much weight would result in 2-3 miles less range. Some youtube channel will probably get smart and do a side by side road test of AWD and RWD so they are exact comparable conditions. It has been shown in many tests on many cars that 19" wheels will get 10-20 miles more range (same tire brand) compared to 20" wheels. And the AWD could have some lower range due to a similar effect of more rotating mass.
ABRP's presumption is 320 Wh/mi for the RWD and 334 Wh/mi for the AWD. So it's base calculations have an about 5% difference or ~10-15mi. The I3 is a much smaller car of course, but having me alone vs. having 3 more passengers impacted speed and range pretty noticeably. 340 pounds / 140 kg (per TeslaBjörn's data) is heavier than my wife, and my 2 kids and their child seats and our luggages altogether.

I hope the range difference really isn't that significant (up to 20 miles) between the 19'' and 20'' wheels.
Most builders like Audi, Mercedes or VW don't seem to take it into consideration. For the Model Y the difference is about 3.5% (12 miles, or 318 vs 330 mi).

I personally always go for the lower rim size as the less the tire's surface touches the road the less the road noise you get (at the expense of handling, which is absolutely secondary in my city environment).
 

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ABRP (which has good models for that) says that much weight would result in 2-3 miles less range.
You can calculate this. Added weight means added rolling resistance. The rolling resistance formula is m * 9.81 m/s² * Cf, where m is the mass in kg, m/s is the speed on the car in meters per second, and Cf is a coefficient of friction based on the tire you're using. Let's say that we have a RWD and AWD driving the same road at 70 MPH. I'll estimate that the RWD weighs 2124 kg and the AWD weighs 2283 kgs. Let's use a Cf of 0.013 for both cars, which is in the ballpark. The force required to overcome the AWD rolling resistance (measured in watts) is 9111W, and the same force for the RWD ID.4 is 8492W. On flat ground at sea level, you might need 12,500W for an ID.4 to overcome air resistance at a 70 MPH speed. Rounding to make this easier, you might need 21 kW to propel the ID.4 RWD and 21.6 kW to propel the AWD, meaning that you'd be looking at about a 3% loss in efficiency with the AWD. I think this would translate into roughly 7 miles lost range at 70 MPH.
 
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ABRP's presumption is 320 Wh/mi for the RWD and 334 Wh/mi for the AWD. So it's base calculations have an about 5% difference or ~10-15mi.
No its exactly 4% and 10 miles diff. They hopefully will refine that further now that they have a lot of data they have collected from everyone whose car is sending them that data as they use ABRP with a dongle that shows real time consumption.
 

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Alright, let me posit a similar question I asked in the other thread then . . .

Do you think the stated 255 mile range for the AWD Pro and AWD Pro S trims is the floor, and the AWD Pro has the potential to get more, or do you think that 255 mile range is the ceiling, and the AWD Pro S only has the potential to get less?

Edit: Or I guess what I'm getting at is can the AWD Pro S really do 255 miles then, or is that false advertising by VW? Assuming both trims were actually put through some kind of test to come up with that range number, and the conditions of the test were the same for both, how could they both have the same estimated range? Are they overstating the range of the AWD Pro S, or understating the range of the AWD Pro?
 

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Alright, let me posit a similar question I asked in the other thread then . . .

Do you think the stated 255 mile range for the AWD Pro and AWD Pro S trims is the floor, and the AWD Pro has the potential to get more, or do you think that 255 mile range is the ceiling, and the AWD Pro S only has the potential to get less?

Edit: Or I guess what I'm getting at is can the AWD Pro S really do 255 miles then, or is that false advertising by VW? Assuming both trims were actually put through some kind of test to come up with that range number, and the conditions of the test were the same for both, how could they both have the same estimated range?
It depends on how, where and when you are driving. At some hypothetical mix of city and highway driving, under close to ideal circumstances, it will do the 255 miles reported by the EPA if you drive from a 100% to 0% state of charge. The EPA measure is a good one to use for comparison to other cars. It's probably not going to help you determine what you experience in the real world. Putting aside that you'll just about never drive from a 100% to 0% state of charge ... your drive is going to take place at different speeds, under a range of weather conditions, in hilly or flat terrain, with a net gain or loss in elevation, and so forth.

For certain, your AWD Pro S CAN achieve 255 miles of range, and more. But perhaps, it won't achieve this kind of range the way you drive it. For example, if you're driving at a steady 70 MPH over flat terrain, it won't achieve 255. I'm pretty sure that NO EV with the ID.4's weight, body shape, tires and battery size can achieve this kind of range at a steady 70 MPH.
 
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Are they overstating the range of the AWD Pro S, or understating the range of the AWD Pro?
The EPA tests they are allowed to group the cars together, and we don't know how or why they did the grouping. It looks like the only groups were RWD all are 275 and AWD all trims are 255. They did even more strange grouping of models on 21s.
 

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Yeah, I get actual range at any given time will vary based on many many factors, but some standardized method must have been used to determine the listed range for the AWD Pro and AWD Pro S, and they were given the same range. I'd assume identical processes were used to determine the ranges for both, the only difference being the differing characteristics of the two trims. Somehow they ended up with the same number, which just can't be true. I'm just not getting how that happened.
 

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Ooops, and I see that was answered as I was submitting my other post. Okay, so they batch the trims. Weird that they would allow that. I feel like with gas powered cars, they always specify the MPG for each trim level so it's clear that the bigger engine or AWD or whatever will have lower MPG.

So basically what it comes down to is the AWD Pro is going to get 10-20 miles more range for any given situation than the AWD Pro S, and it's mostly down to the stupid bigger wheels. Great information, thank you, but now I'm stressed out a bit again. As far as I can tell there's no way my AWD Pro order is going to make it before the end of the year, and I've got an AWD Pro S lined up and plan on picking it up this week. I was feeling great about it until now.
 

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No its exactly 4% and 10 miles diff. They hopefully will refine that further now that they have a lot of data they have collected from everyone whose car is sending them that data as they use ABRP with a dongle that shows real time consumption.
Yeah, we are exactly inexact with out guesstimates.

You can calculate this. Added weight means added rolling resistance. The rolling resistance formula is m * 9.81 m/s² * Cf, where m is the mass in kg, m/s is the speed on the car in meters per second, and Cf is a coefficient of friction based on the tire you're using. Let's say that we have a RWD and AWD driving the same road at 70 MPH. I'll estimate that the RWD weighs 2124 kg and the AWD weighs 2283 kgs. Let's use a Cf of 0.013 for both cars, which is in the ballpark. The force required to overcome the AWD rolling resistance (measured in watts) is 9111W, and the same force for the RWD ID.4 is 8492W. On flat ground at sea level, you might need 12,500W for an ID.4 to overcome air resistance at a 70 MPH speed. Rounding to make this easier, you might need 21 kW to propel the ID.4 RWD and 21.6 kW to propel the AWD, meaning that you'd be looking at about a 3% loss in efficiency with the AWD. I think this would translate into roughly 7 miles lost range at 70 MPH.
This does make me wonder about the EPA range indeed. In reality acceleration curves will have a major impact.
 

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Sorry I used the wrong number above from Bjorn. Looking at the VW spec sheets the weight diff between a 2021 Pro S RWD is 4665 and Pro S AWD is 4888 = 223 more.
 
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