[Perry Rhodan]

Seriously, there's no point arguing about this here. VW made design choices based on many factors one of which was cost. Not just manufacturing cost but long term maintenance/replacement cost to owners.

You are free to disagree and not buy one, leaving one more ID.4 available for people who want one.

 

[Greenlineguy]

Seriously, there's no point arguing about this here. VW made design choices based on many factors one of which was cost. Not just manufacturing cost but long term maintenance/replacement cost to owners.

You are free to disagree and not buy one, leaving one more ID.4 available for people who want one.

Not arguing at all! Just letting prospective buyers know that changing brake pads on a disc is cheaper than changing drum brakes, and to keep them safe by letting them know if they ride those drum brakes on that new car that will also take away the main breaking from the rear disc brakes have drums separated from the main breaking! Can't depend on regenerative braking on a rear wheel drive car as much as you can from a front-wheel drive car! For safety sake you need that extra level of protection that a rear disc drum system provides!

 

[Greenlineguy]

I'm not here to argue I'm just here because I thought this was an informative forum! I am only here to inform people of potential problems that may arise with drum brakes in the rear! An electric vehicle with rear wheel drive only just in my opinion can be problematic for many drivers because it has drum brakes in the rear and the regenerative braking in a rear drive only EV is not going to stop that well .If it were front-wheel drive first it would be a different story it would have stronger regenerative braking.Another thing if that EV doesn't have automatic parking brake release when you engage the drive mode, you run the risk of burning out your rear brakes prematurely and since that's the only mechanical braking system you have back there you would have lost at least 20 to 30% of your braking capacity because you have no primary brake system after that! I'm not asking anyone to take my word for it just research it and use your common sense, three ways to stop is always better than two (regenerative, parking, primary breaking!)

 

[Tinman]

Greenlineguy, I'm thinking from Post #24 that you have never driven an ID.4? Wait until you find out that there is no parking brake as you're describing it and that those dumb engineers at VW pretty much sealed those drum brakes.

 

[Greenlineguy]

Greenlineguy, I'm thinking from Post #24 that you have never driven an ID.4? Wait until you find out that there is no parking brake as you're describing it and that those dumb engineers at VW pretty much sealed those drum brakes.

Yes I have driven the ID 4 pro s rear wheel drive! I like the vehicle but it didn't stop as well as I thought it should. I hope they put rear disc on the back of the all-wheel drive version! Also I was comparing the breaking with a rear wheel drive Tesla model 3 and a Chevrolet Bolt. Both stopped better in my opinion!

 

[RocketVol]

I am trying to understand your logic and am wondering if you think that the regenerative braking actually uses the drum mechanism to work? it does not. When the ID.4 engages regenerative braking it reverses the polarity in the electric traction motor to apply an opposite/resistive torque to the rear wheels. The drum brakes do nothing under regen, just like rear discs on every EV that has them. The rear brakes on any ICE car really don't do much either and the actual braking force is on the front wheels and not the rear (usually in the range of a 90/10 or 80/20 split) unless there is panic braking. The reason behind drums is that with the regen braking they would only really be used in those panic situations....the same as if they were discs....in any EV the rears really never do anything

there is an automatic parking brake release when you engage the traction motor so there is no way to forget and leave it on, it releases it for you. And there are 3 ways to stop: regen, friction brake, and parking brake.

if you are concerned with the looks of drums in the rear you could always paint them to look like a disc.

 

[Enzo589]

I love my ID.4 and trust VW knows what they are doing and that if i ever need to slam on the brakes, the car will stop. VW is not a company to just design something to save money unless the savings make sense for the consumer’s pocket and it doesn’t compromise safety. I haven’t seen a good real argument as to why the rears should be disc brakes, so I’m done reading this thread. Here’s a good article to learn more:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/how-the-rising-popularity-of-e-vs-could-lead-to-a-resurgence-of-drum-brakes-170000388.html

 

[Greenlineguy]

I am trying to understand your logic and am wondering if you think that the regenerative braking actually uses the drum mechanism to work? it does not. When the ID.4 engages regenerative braking it reverses the polarity in the electric traction motor to apply an opposite/resistive torque to the rear wheels. The drum brakes do nothing under regen, just like rear discs on every EV that has them. The rear brakes on any ICE car really don't do much either and the actual braking force is on the front wheels and not the rear (usually in the range of a 90/10 or 80/20 split) unless there is panic braking. The reason behind drums is that with the regen braking they would only really be used in those panic situations....the same as if they were discs....in any EV the rears really never do anything

there is an automatic parking brake release when you engage the traction motor so there is no way to forget and leave it on, it releases it for you. And there are 3 ways to stop: regen, friction brake, and parking brake.

if you are concerned with the looks of drums in the rear you could always paint them to look like a disc.

Let me clear that up for you the mechanical braking system front disc rear disc or drum has nothing to do with the regenerative braking of the motor, it is an independent system! I am very much aware that electric vehicles use the electric motor for some of the breaking! Disc brakes in the rear of a car helps stop the car better than drum will ever do. Electric vehicles with regenerative braking for the most part will see their brake system front disc rear disc system or front disc rear drum system both will last over 100,000 MI if used properly with the regenerative braking . I was saying exactly what you said in your writing if you have to come to an emergency stop you want a rear brake to be a disc! The rear brake system on the on the Volkswagen ID4 would be cheaper to replace in the event of a catastrophic rear brake system failure then a rear disc system, but outside of that happening rear disc brakes pads are easier to replace than drums!

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

I will not fight with you you are predetermined on why disc brakes are better....
Good luck and I hope some day you find time and try to learn more about drum vs disc.....EV vs ICE.....regeneration and other things that you are not very familiar with because of your esthetic preferences over engineering .

 

[Greenlineguy]

I love my ID.4 and trust VW knows what they are doing and that if i ever need to slam on the brakes, the car will stop. VW is not a company to just design something to save money unless the savings make sense for the consumer’s pocket and it doesn’t compromise safety. I haven’t seen a good real argument as to why the rears should be disc brakes, so I’m done reading this thread. Here’s a good article to learn more:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/how-the-rising-popularity-of-e-vs-could-lead-to-a-resurgence-of-drum-brakes-170000388.html

I'm glad you enjoy your ID4! I'm just looking at the breaking system from a different perspective, because of the fact that electric vehicles have regenerative braking some manufacturers are looking to cut costs anywhere they can! If you're happy with a little less breaking power it's fine with me, but I've been working on cars for over 45 years I know the difference between rear drums and rear disc even if it's an EV or not it will still give you a little bit more breaking especially in an emergency!

 

[Tinman]

I will not fight with you you are predetermined on why disc brakes are better....

I remember reading Smokey Yunick and Cale Yarborough (NASCAR legends) arguing disc v. drums in the pages of Popular Mechanics magazine in the 1960s!

 

[Enzo589]

I'm glad you enjoy your ID4! I'm just looking at the breaking system from a different perspective, because of the fact that electric vehicles have regenerative braking some manufacturers are looking to cut costs anywhere they can! If you're happy with a little less breaking power it's fine with me, but I've been working on cars for over 45 years I know the difference between rear drums and rear disc even if it's an EV or not it will still give you a little bit more breaking especially in an emergency!

I don’t know if you’ve had this experience with disc brakes but I feel like every car I get, the disc brakes warp after some time. They have so much life left but they warp. With the rears hardly ever being used, I can’t imagine the shape they would be in after just a year of being on the car. If you are saying the fronts do most of the braking, the ID4’s front rotors will make it happen.

 

[NOVA49]

Just for grins, does anyone know the size of the front brakes compared to a GTI with the Performance Package?

A significant question: are the EU ID.4s equipped with the same drum brakes? These German cars are engineered to have superb brakes for panic stops from very high speeds on the Autobahn. If they can do it with rear drums, then I’m sure they are just fine.

 

[Greenlineguy]

I will not fight with you you are predetermined on why disc brakes are better....
Good luck and I hope some day you find time and try to learn more about drum vs disc.....EV vs ICE.....regeneration and other things that you are not very familiar with because of your esthetic preferences over engineering .

Aesthetics aside if you put disc brakes on the back of that car it will stop better and a lot less brake fade! Some manufacturers had tried that in the past and then change back on newer models! I don't know about you but if that motor ever fails in an EV with drum brakes on the rear your braking will be even more limited!

I don’t know if you’ve had this experience with disc brakes but I feel like every car I get, the disc brakes warp after some time. They have so much life left but they warp. With the rears hardly ever being used, I can’t imagine the shape they would be in after just a year of being on the car. If you are saying the fronts do most of the braking, the ID4’s front rotors will make it happen.

I just did some more research on the car and just as I suspected some of the owners have already complained about the braking system so good luck with your front rotor only breaking!

 

[Greenlineguy]

Just for grins, does anyone know the size of the front brakes compared to a GTI with the Performance Package?

A significant question: are the EU ID.4s equipped with the same drum brakes? These German cars are engineered to have superb brakes for panic stops from very high speeds on the Autobahn. If they can do it with rear drums, then I’m sure they are just fine.
[/QUOTE
If the drum brakes are fine for you I'm happy for you but I was not saying that the car would not stop with drum brakes I'm saying that disc brakes will stop you better!

 

[Enzo589]

Aesthetics aside if you put disc brakes on the back of that car it will stop better and a lot less brake fade! Some manufacturers had tried that in the past and then change back on newer models! I don't know about you but if that motor ever fails in an EV with drum brakes on the rear your braking will be even more limited!

I just did some more research on the car and just as I suspected some of the owners have already complained about the braking system so good luck with your front rotor only breaking!

I believe they are complaining about the peddle being a bit soft. Out of curiosity, what other vehicle(s) are you considering?

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

I

I'm glad you enjoy your ID4! I'm just looking at the breaking system from a different perspective, because of the fact that electric vehicles have regenerative braking some manufacturers are looking to cut costs anywhere they can! If you're happy with a little less breaking power it's fine with me, but I've been working on cars for over 45 years I know the difference between rear drums and rear disc even if it's an EV or not it will still give you a little bit more breaking especially in an emergency!

I personally think that you should do little more research from what you think you know and what is happening with toady technology and engineering...especially research 50:50 weight distribution....ability for EV fast response to control leaning front end when you do emergency stopping.....difference in breaking power rear vs front......weight momentum of the wheel when you doing emergency stopping.....
I can write probably 2 pages A4 format for you to research. And once you learn...this may change your opinion on disc vs drum brakes...
And for reference i have been working as engineer for many years on chassis....breaks....transmission....propulsion units....battery management....and anything you can think... dream or talk about cars....
If drum breaks are this bad vs disc.....I would expect that all Class 8 Truck's should ride on disc brakes instead of drum breaks.And we are talking about 80 000+ LBS daily used all across the world.And it is easily possible to make drum brakes to have better cooling characteristics than disc brakes....this is just to give you idea that disc brakes are not in the market for being more superior than drums.
So please feel free to challenge my experience and knowledge vs your 45 years of experience working on cars. I would be more than happy to exchange on engineering level your opinion vs the facts and truth.

 

[Greenlineguy]

I believe they are complaining about the peddle being a bit soft. Out of curiosity, what other vehicle(s) are you considering?

I am still considering the ID4 if the all-wheel drive version has disc brakes I will never buy a car with drum brakes! What to answer your question I'm also looking at the new Toyota electric the Hyundai iconic 5 or the sister car the Kia electric that's coming out soon!

I believe they are complaining about the peddle being a bit soft. Out of curiosity, what other vehicle(s) are you considering?
[/QUOTE
Electric cars from either Kia, Hyundai, Toyota. I'm favoring the Kia or the Hyundai because of the fact they're saying that they have new 800 volt architecture in it which will allow the vehicle to charge even faster in the future when 800 volt systems become available!

I

I personally think that you should do little more research from what you think you know and what is happening with toady technology and engineering...especially research 50:50 weight distribution....ability for EV fast response to control leaning front end when you do emergency stopping.....difference in breaking power rear vs front......weight momentum of the wheel when you doing emergency stopping.....
I can write probably 2 pages A4 format for you to research. And once you learn...this may change your opinion on disc vs drum brakes...
And for reference i have been working as engineer for many years on chassis....breaks....transmission....propulsion units....battery management....and anything you can think... dream or talk about cars....
If drum breaks are this bad vs disc.....I would expect that all Class 8 Truck's should ride on disc brakes instead of drum breaks.And we are talking about 80 000+ LBS daily used all across the world.And it is easily possible to make drum brakes to have better cooling characteristics than disc brakes....this is just to give you idea that disc brakes are not in the market for being more superior than drums.
So please feel free to challenge my experience and knowledge vs your 45 years of experience working on cars. I would be more than happy to exchange on engineering level your opinion vs the facts and truth.

I think you are still missing the point not here to debate about the drum brakes being bad! I'm saying all things being equal disc brakes on the rear of any car will stop you a little better than drum brakes will! If drum breaks in the rear would stop you better don't you think they would be on more electric cars like a Tesla model S? The main excuse for Volkswagen to put drum brakes on that car is for rolling resistance? It's a cost saving measure plain and simple nothing wrong with that it's just that I like the car but I won't buy one after driving it doesn't even stop nowhere near as well as my Chevy bolt! I see no reason to over engineer a rear brake because Volkswagen feels that you don't need the extra stopping power of a disc because EVS have regenerative braking!

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

I am still considering the ID4 if the all-wheel drive version has disc brakes I will never buy a car with drum brakes! What to answer your question I'm also looking at the new Toyota electric the Hyundai iconic 5 or the sister car the Kia electric that's coming out soon!


I think you are still missing the point not here to debate about the drum brakes being bad! I'm saying all things being equal disc brakes on the rear of any car will stop you a little better than drum brakes will! If drum breaks in the rear would stop you better don't you think they would be on more electric cars like a Tesla model S? The main excuse for Volkswagen to put drum brakes on that car is for rolling resistance? It's a cost saving measure plain and simple nothing wrong with that it's just that I like the car but I won't buy one after driving it doesn't even stop nowhere near as well as my Chevy bolt! I see no reason to over engineer a rear brake because Volkswagen feels that you don't need the extra stopping power of a disc because EVS have regenerative braking!

Actually drum brakes will have more friction surface and they will require less hydraulic pressure to make quicker response and shorter stopping. Facts not opinion....

 

[wtatun]

Wow - for a person that joined the forum 5h ago (and doesn’t even have the car) to rag on drum brakes (which make total sense since they hardly get used), they’ve certainly stirred things up. Unfortunately, for no good reason. Oh well…..some fall into the traps of these folks all the time. I think we’ve tried to answer the “subject line” of his post…..
I’m with VW Technician, he’s predetermined to have a certain view and nothing is going to change that (kind of like politics). 😂