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To road trip or not to road trip with a brand new ID.4?

  • Go for it!

    Votes: 46 83.6%
  • Don’t do it; wait until you drive it around town for a few weeks first

    Votes: 7 12.7%
  • Not sure.

    Votes: 2 3.6%
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I too plan on hitting the road. Most of the EV trip planners are already on my phone and PC permitting me to practice trip routing. Since we will be transitioning from a hybrid to full EV I want to get familiar with EV consumption. Texas is a state where, no matter the speed limit, you have the God given right to drive as fast as you want whenever and wherever. It is "move over or get run over". This means if the speed limit is 75 you had better be doing it at least 75 and if you are not at least five over you best be in the right lane. What I am so artfully trying to say is I want to see what my power consumption at those speeds will be as opposed to 50 on slower roads. I almost feel as we are about to reprise the Conestoga wagon days but instead of planning the feeding of the horses we now have to plan on charging station locations.
 

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For what it is worth, I regularly make somewhat shorter trips of 150 miles. I never bother to charge above 80%, and usually have at least 50 miles on the GOM when I get there.

I would also note that for the person brought this up, that there are some L2 at about the halfway point at a Walmart. Maybe a little slower than is ideal, but it would be a plan B in case it seemed like you were cutting it too close.
Maybe I am doing the math incorrectly (which is entirely possible), but doesn't it take about 1 hour/70 miles of range at a level 2 charger?
 

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VW ID.4 1st (picked up 3/19/21).
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Maybe I am doing the math incorrectly (which is entirely possible), but doesn't it take about 1 hour/70 miles of range at a level 2 charger?
Yes, but my thought is that it would be kind of an emergency fallback if the GOM said you couldn't quite reach the destination, or if you were cutting it too close for comfort. So in 10 or 20 minutes, you would be able to add a few miles to the cushion so you didn't need to worry about making it or not.
 

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2021 1st
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One change though: Start at 100% charge.
Top it off to 95% but leave a little bit of headroom for regenerative breaking.

BTW, aside from a few miles here and there in town, we live over 150 miles from the nearest metro and the 1K miles we've put on our FE since last week (starting Friday) have all been multi-hundred mile trips with 100+ legs. In fact, we test drove it for 15 minutes and then asked them to charge the one we could buy, did some things in San Diego, got lunch, and were out of the dealership around 3pm and immediately drove to LA. We didn't realize we needed a code from the dealership for EA charging until the next day...on Saturday so that was a cluster but eventually it was all resolved :D
 

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Top it off to 95% but leave a little bit of headroom for regenerative breaking.

BTW, aside from a few miles here and there in town, we live over 150 miles from the nearest metro and the 1K miles we've put on our FE since last week (starting Friday) have all been multi-hundred mile trips with 100+ legs. In fact, we test drove it for 15 minutes and then asked them to charge the one we could buy, did some things in San Diego, got lunch, and were out of the dealership around 3pm and immediately drove to LA. We didn't realize we needed a code from the dealership for EA charging until the next day...on Saturday so that was a cluster but eventually it was all resolved :D
Can I ask why stop short of 100%? It seems like you either have a guaranteed 5% more charge starting out by fully charging, or you stop short and leave yourself a potential of getting no more than 5% from regeneration.

If you started with 100%, you'll quickly be down to where regen is possible anyway, and in the interim, depleting that extra 5% from the EVSE seems like the safer bet.

Maybe I'm missing something (especially if charging is free or low cost), but it doesn't seem like leaving buffer for regen at the start of a road trip would be better than the 100% charge and at best, leaving the regen buffer would only get you to the same amount of range.
 

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2021 1st
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You want to leave some headroom for regenerative braking. If you don't, your braking will be compromised. Remember, we only have disk brakes up front and the rear "drums" are regenerative braking. That's what we had to do with the eGolf, too, and those were disk all around and drivers could still feel the difference. Unless you aren't planning on stopping for 5+ miles you will most likely prefer the driving characteristics compared to 100% fully charged. Most people have a few stops before getting a couple miles away--most likely you'll gain energy back 10ft away from leaving your driveway and then again 100ft away. 5% of your battery is roughly 10 miles.

Musk himself recommends Tesla owners recharge up to 90% for the reasons I was describing. 95% was a compromise recommendation from me for those of you experiencing range anxiety. Do remember it's far better to simply slow down on your trip than it is to stop and charge. This was more apparent on 1st gen eGolfs when driving for an hour at 60 rather than 70 would get you to your destination quicker than having to charge (due to its 86 mile range).
 

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You want to leave some headroom for regenerative braking. If you don't, your braking will be compromised. Remember, we only have disk brakes up front and the rear "drums" are regenerative braking. That's what we had to do with the eGolf, too, and those were disk all around and drivers could still feel the difference. Unless you aren't planning on stopping for 5+ miles you will most likely prefer the driving characteristics compared to 100% fully charged. Most people have a few stops before getting a couple miles away--most likely you'll gain energy back 10ft away from leaving your driveway and then again 100ft away. 5% of your battery is roughly 10 miles.

Musk himself recommends Tesla owners recharge up to 90% for the reasons I was describing. 95% was a compromise recommendation from me for those of you experiencing range anxiety. Do remember it's far better to simply slow down on your trip than it is to stop and charge. This was more apparent on 1st gen eGolfs when driving for an hour at 60 rather than 70 would get you to your destination quicker than having to charge (due to its 86 mile range).
Does the ID.4 compensate for the lack of regenerative braking with friction brakes? e.g. When you are in B mode, with 100% battery, do you still get deceleration when you let off the go pedal? To my mind, a smartly designed system would give you predictable and repeatable acceleration curves based on the same pedal inputs, no matter whether it was done by regeneration or friction brakes. (I'm hoping the ID.4 does this, and have heard that Teslas do not.)
 

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Does the ID.4 compensate for the lack of regenerative braking with friction brakes? e.g. When you are in B mode, with 100% battery, do you still get deceleration when you let off the go pedal? To my mind, a smartly designed system would give you predictable and repeatable acceleration curves based on the same pedal inputs, no matter whether it was done by regeneration or friction brakes. (I'm hoping the ID.4 does this, and have heard that Teslas do not.)
Tesla is, I believe, the only EV that doesn't apply regenerative braking with the brake pedal so the driving characteristics are substantively different than what we'd experience in a VW.

It'd be difficult to test your question. Someone at the top of a hill would have to charge to 100% and then start immediately down the hill. VW EVs mimic gasser driving characteristics the best, in my opinion. Their design intent is not trying for gold medal hypermiling but rather to make EVs palatable for the masses. They still have to contend with physics, however, so there is not a whole lot of headroom for braking when the battery is full and you will experience compromised braking. The video I watched stated the rear drums were sealed so I'm curious if the pads are even serviceable (by owners).
 

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Tesla is, I believe, the only EV that doesn't apply regenerative braking with the brake pedal so the driving characteristics are substantively different than what we'd experience in a VW.

It'd be difficult to test your question. Someone at the top of a hill would have to charge to 100% and then start immediately down the hill. VW EVs mimic gasser driving characteristics the best, in my opinion. Their design intent is not trying for gold medal hypermiling but rather to make EVs palatable for the masses. They still have to contend with physics, however, so there is not a whole lot of headroom for braking when the battery is full and you will experience compromised braking. The video I watched stated the rear drums were sealed so I'm curious if the pads are even serviceable (by owners).
I'm not sure what you mean by braking would be compromised. Fully friction brakes should be more than adequate to provide the needed braking, even without regenerative, no?
EDIT: This was sort of the root of my previous question. It seems to me, that with blended braking, your pedal inputs (either down on the brake, or up on the go pedal in B mode) should correspond to a specific amount of braking power, and let the blending system decide how to accomplish that.
 

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I'm not sure what you mean by braking would be compromised. Fully friction brakes should be more than adequate to provide the needed braking, even without regenerative, no?
EDIT: This was sort of the root of my previous question. It seems to me, that with blended braking, your pedal inputs (either down on the brake, or up on the go pedal in B mode) should correspond to a specific amount of braking power, and let the blending system decide how to accomplish that.
Yes, I was going to come back and respond again when I realized I hadn't directly answered your question: the brakes are engineered to feel similar whether it's friction or regeneratively braking.

That said, the engineers are still bound by the laws of physics. If you are hard-stopping you will compromise the brakes. You'll feel this in a gasser using only friction brakes, as well. Most people intuit this and learn not to hard stop. Some don't every learn it and fry their brakes driving down a mountain or while towing. Safe driving programs measure one's hard stops as a primary metric of safety.

The vehicle is surprisingly nimble for its weight class. When I say "compromised" I mean the vehicle won't stop on a dime and eventually you'll cause significant wear (and possible damage over time) if you constantly bear down on the friction brakes. If you were driving a Touareg you wouldn't expect to stop on a dime, though, so my comments aren't intended to say braking becomes less safe as a function of not having enough regenerative braking headroom.
 

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Since the “usable” is less than the full battery capacity wouldn’t charging to 100% still leave that headroom you’re looking for?
No, but try it and see if you have a different experience than me in regards to pedal feel.
 

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Yes, I was going to come back and respond again when I realized I hadn't directly answered your question: the brakes are engineered to feel similar whether it's friction or regeneratively braking.

That said, the engineers are still bound by the laws of physics. If you are hard-stopping you will compromise the brakes. You'll feel this in a gasser using only friction brakes, as well. Most people intuit this and learn not to hard stop. Some don't every learn it and fry their brakes driving down a mountain or while towing. Safe driving programs measure one's hard stops as a primary metric of safety.

The vehicle is surprisingly nimble for its weight class. When I say "compromised" I mean the vehicle won't stop on a dime and eventually you'll cause significant wear (and possible damage over time) if you constantly bear down on the friction brakes. If you were driving a Touareg you wouldn't expect to stop on a dime, though, so my comments aren't intended to say braking becomes less safe as a function of not having enough regenerative braking headroom.
Ahh, I think I get you now. You mean it will cause more wear on the vehicle if it's only relying on friction brakes more often without the benefit of regenerative braking. That makes sense, but I don't imagine it being any worse than all the cars I've driven so far, which haven't had the benefit of regenerative braking to assist with slowing down.
 

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I don't imagine it being any worse than all the cars I've driven so far, which haven't had the benefit of regenerative braking to assist with slowing down.
More wear, yes, but also more heat, which will lead to brake fade. So compromised in a functional sense, as well. Do keep in mind that the past cars you've driven have disks on all four corners (unless we're talking decades ago when some of us had drum brakes, but those were engineered for friction braking) and this only has disk up front. I'm not sure how much the rear drums are engineered for friction stopping but I wouldn't want to test its limits if them being sealed means the pads are difficult to impossible for owners to replace.
 

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Does the ID.4 compensate for the lack of regenerative braking with friction brakes? e.g. When you are in B mode, with 100% battery, do you still get deceleration when you let off the go pedal? To my mind, a smartly designed system would give you predictable and repeatable acceleration curves based on the same pedal inputs, no matter whether it was done by regeneration or friction brakes. (I'm hoping the ID.4 does this, and have heard that Teslas do not.)
I think I remember @OutofSpecKyle mentioning regen/braking feel at 100% in one of his videos, but it's too late at night for me to go through all of his videos right now to try and find it. Maybe he can comment.

The video I watched stated the rear drums were sealed so I'm curious if the pads are even serviceable (by owners).
Numerous reviews/VW interviews have said that the drum brakes shouldn't need servicing for the life of the vehicle.
 

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Numerous reviews/VW interviews have said that the drum brakes shouldn't need servicing for the life of the vehicle.
Yes, those are the comments I've been alluding to. I hope them not needing to be service does not mean they can't be serviced. Those statements seem to underscore what I'm discussing in relation to them being engineered primarily for regenerative braking. It's an interesting question whether they even aid in friction stopping--that's just an assumption I, and others, have been making. It's entirely possible only the front brakes are friction.

Once I pull my Touareg off the lift I can put the ID up on it and see if I can learn anything from some tests.
 

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It's an interesting question whether they even aid in friction stopping--that's just an assumption I, and others, have been making. It's entirely possible only the front brakes are friction.
Regen happens through the motor, so I'm not sure what you're getting at with this comment. In day-to-day driving it might be the case that only the front discs get blended in with regen in the back. Is that what you mean? All four friction brakes, disc and drum, would certainly get activated in a hard emergency stop.

I'm not a car brake expert, so I can only repeat what I've heard: the drum brakes are described as preferable for this sort of infrequent use because they are sealed and can be expected to work appropriately right away, unlike discs which may rust with disuse and take a few revolutions to "bite". I could see that reliability outweighing the higher absolute power of disc brakes, if that higher power wouldn't be available in the moment you actually need it - and where higher power isn't absolutely necessary, due to unloading the rear axle during braking.

What sort of servicing do you anticipate having to perform?
 
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In day-to-day driving it might be the case that only the front discs get blended in with regen in the back. Is that what you mean? All four friction brakes, disc and drum, would certainly get activated in a hard emergency stop.

What sort of servicing do you anticipate having to perform?
Yes, that's what I meant. The rear brake pads might not aid in friction braking under normal conditions and would only be activated in emergency situations and while parked. I can see VW claiming they would last the life of the vehicle under those conditions (ignoring, for a minute, what VW means when it labels something "lifetime").

The conversation is about braking with the battery fully charged to 100%. When the vehicle is only able to stop via friction, and if the rear drums are consistently activated under those conditions, then "servicing" could entail changing the pads eventually. If they are "sealed" in a way that owners can't change those pads because VW didn't engineer it with the assumption drivers would use friction brakes often or long enough, then that will present a problem for drivers who need to rely on their friction brakes more than those who don't.
 

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The conversation is about braking with the battery fully charged to 100%.
Actually, it was originally about road trips.

When the battery is at "100%", it is only using 77kwh of 82kwh total. That's approx 6% overhead. It still has plenty in the battery for times when people hit the brakes at 100%. Non-issue.
 
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