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RWD vs AWD

8138 Views 43 Replies 27 Participants Last post by donpablopereira, Nov 10, 2021

TheBeavBC

Discussion Starter · May 4, 2021

Here on the West Coast of Canada in Vancouver we probably won’t see the ID4 until at least September. Dealers are accepting $500 deposits for their waiting list and I made mine in March and my salesman has been in touch asking for specifics on what version I am interested in. Initially I went with the Pro S AWD (I believe the Statement package in Canada includes the U.S. Gradient package). I realize the AWD will provide more HP, but I thought the dual motors would increase range, but apparently my research indicates range will be slightly less than the RWD. The added horsepower isn’t a biggie with me, I’m retired and my acceleration exhilaration days aren’t that important anymore. Most of the message boards indicate that most owners are okay with the RWD tourque.
Considering Vancouver gets very little snow I’m now considering the RWD over the AWD, especially when I’m more interested in range rather than HP. Is my HP assertion correct? Am I missing some AWD advantages?

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dg4prez

· #2 · May 4, 2021

AWD shouldn't impact the range too badly, I should think, because it's not "on" all the time - I believe it's on-demand. The biggest difference is probably the increased cost. Here in NH we get a decent amount of snow, but based on what I've seen and read RWD in an electric vehicle is a different prospect than in a gas-powered one due to the weight distribution.

I'm not sure what the canadian packages are, but here in the US the AWD also includes the tow hitch and heated windshield, and it was the windshield that was a deal breaker for me - I believe it's a wire matrix sort and I'm just not interested in having wires in my field of vision. I'm not 100% on that - I don't think we've seen one of those yet - but ultimately AWD just didn't offer enough to make me want to wait and pay more.

You should check on the gradient, because here in the states it changes the external appearance - silver stripe vs black - and adds larger wheels which decrease the ride comfort a bit. Some people are into that, personally I am not.

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Huey52

· #3 · May 4, 2021

The AWD model is heavier given the add'l motor/drivetrain so that is what contributes most to its lesser range.

I find the RWD power is, as Rolls Royce would say, "adequate."

I'm also retired and my 'acceleration exhilaration' [sports car] days are similarly not so important, but the instant torque, esp. in Sport mode, is impressive and well employed in around town maneuvering. The turn-in is remarkably agile as well for a CUV and does approach a GTI in this respect. Yesterday I had a guy right on my tail and was able to more distance him at every turn but as I stayed at the speed limit he would again encroach every straight away. Fun 'game' none the less and we retirees look for any such opportunity. 🤪

The low center of gravity and excellent weight distribution of the RWD makes it very planted and confidence inspiring. But of course AWD even more so, esp. in snow, and should be considerably sportier given an added 100 Hp. But as you don't seem to need same it would appear RWD is the right fit for you too.

TheBeavBC said:
Here on the West Coast of Canada in Vancouver we probably won’t see the ID4 until at least September. Dealers are accepting $500 deposits for their waiting list and I made mine in March and my salesman has been in touch asking for specifics on what version I am interested in. Initially I went with the Pro S AWD (I believe the Statement package in Canada includes the U.S. Gradient package). I realize the AWD will provide more HP, but I thought the dual motors would increase range, but apparently my research indicates range will be slightly less than the RWD. The added horsepower isn’t a biggie with me, I’m retired and my acceleration exhilaration days aren’t that important anymore. Most of the message boards indicate that most owners are okay with the RWD tourque.
Considering Vancouver gets very little snow I’m now considering the RWD over the AWD, especially when I’m more interested in range rather than HP. Is my HP assertion correct? Am I missing some AWD advantages?

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Trunkenbold

· #4 · May 4, 2021

Here is an article talking about the heated front windscreen.

Volkswagen develops heated wire-free windshield; benefits in the summer as well

Volkswagen has developed a windshield made with a conductive layer of silver to provide required heat for clear windshields in winter without the use of embedded filament wires. Any renewed misting or icing up is also prevented. For decades, fine filaments have been inserted into windshield...

www.greencarcongress.com

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SunWizard

· #5 · May 4, 2021

TheBeavBC said:
Most of the message boards indicate that most owners are okay with the RWD tourque.

This is because the only owners so far are the ones who were OK with the lower torque, the people who are not are still waiting. Those who have RWD have not driven an AWD yet so they don't know what they are missing until the AWD are out for test drives. Only at that point will be be able to see the real mix of how many want AWD versus RWD. Its not just the power, the handling and cornering will be different.

dg4prez said:
it was the windshield that was a deal breaker for me - I believe it's a wire matrix sort

This is not true and needs to be refuted every time someone brings it up.

mlsstl

· #6 · May 4, 2021

Would be interesting to know what the new heated windshield adds to the cost of replacing it if one gets a crack in it, and also how much it slows replacement if one has to wait for the part to come in. Both can be a drawback to new technology that is exclusive to just one model.

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SunWizard

· #7 · May 4, 2021

Trunkenbold said:
Here is an article talking about the heated front windscreen.

Volkswagen develops heated wire-free windshield; benefits in the summer as well

Volkswagen has developed a windshield made with a conductive layer of silver to provide required heat for clear windshields in winter without the use of embedded filament wires. Any renewed misting or icing up is also prevented. For decades, fine filaments have been inserted into windshield...

www.greencarcongress.com

Thanks for the link, this is a big thing I didn't know about the heated windshield:
In the summer, the thin layer of silver acts as a passive heat shield. As it reflects up to 60% of the summer heat, it is able to reduce the inside temperature by up to 15 degrees more than conventional glass with green tinting. As a result, the air-conditioning system is able to cool a car that has been parked in the sun down to a comfortable temperature much more quickly.

This is great since cooling the car is often going to draw more power than heating, since the AC compressor has to cool not just the people but also the batteries, motor, drive electronics, 400 to 12 volt converter and overcome any sun heating, which here in CO is very strong even in winter. And for heating we have the more efficient direct heat from the heated seats, wheel, and windshield. There are no lower power options like that for cooling, except open all the windows

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Trunkenbold

· #8 · May 4, 2021

Granted, it is an older article so there is no guarantee that it is the windshield used on the ID.4, but I would imagine that it is very likely especially given the benefits to summer AC usage.

dg4prez

· #9 · May 4, 2021

That's the thing, we have no idea because it's VWoA.

theboomr

· #10 · May 4, 2021

SunWizard said:
Thanks for the link, this is a big thing I didn't know about the heated windshield:
In the summer, the thin layer of silver acts as a passive heat shield. As it reflects up to 60% of the summer heat, it is able to reduce the inside temperature by up to 15 degrees more than conventional glass with green tinting. As a result, the air-conditioning system is able to cool a car that has been parked in the sun down to a comfortable temperature much more quickly.

This is great since cooling the car is often going to draw more power than heating, since the AC compressor has to cool not just the people but also the batteries, motor, drive electronics, 400 to 12 volt converter and overcome any sun heating, which here in CO is very strong even in winter. And for heating we have the more efficient direct heat from the heated seats, wheel, and windshield. There are no lower power options like that for cooling, except open all the windows

I haven't really seen any cooling power draw tests done on the ID.4 specifically, but pretty much any time I've seen anyone test EV range, driving in hot weather with the AC blasting gets noticeably better range than driving in cold weather with the heater blasting.

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YowVil

· #11 · May 4, 2021

According to vw.ca, the trailer hitch is the only feature that is different between the AWD Pro and RWD Pro. Both have the heated windshield.

TheBeavBC

Discussion Starter · #12 · May 4, 2021

So, I spoke to my salesperson informing him I was going to opt out of my AWD choice and go for the RWD instead. Told me if I did then I would drop to the bottom of the RWD list and may be looking at early 2022 for delivery. Said if I stayed with the AWD I could reasonably expect delivery in December. Think I’ll stick with the AWD choice, get it delivered, then make up my mind. Also put a deposit on a Q4, but I think the pricing may deter that choice.

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SunWizard

· #13 · May 4, 2021

theboomr said:
I haven't really seen any cooling power draw tests done on the ID.4 specifically, but pretty much any time I've seen anyone test EV range, driving in hot weather with the AC blasting gets noticeably better range than driving in cold weather with the heater blasting.

The AC draws 5.5kw which is surprisingly the exact same as the cabin heater (from NHTSA docs that VW submitted.) My point was how often we will need to use the AC versus the heat, since we have the much lower power options to use in most weather: heat the seats, wheel and windshield directly. It all depends on your climate, and we will find out soon as the hot parts of the country get even hotter and report more range numbers.

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SunWizard

· #14 · May 4, 2021

YowVil said:
According to vw.ca, the trailer hitch is the only feature that is different between the AWD Pro and RWD Pro. Both have the heated windshield.

Note that is canada, and not true for US models.

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Nai3t

· #15 · May 4, 2021

SunWizard said:
The AC draws 5.5kw which is surprisingly the exact same as the cabin heater (from NHTSA docs that VW submitted.) My point was how often we will need to use the AC versus the heat, since we have the much lower power options to use in most weather: heat the seats, wheel and windshield directly. It all depends on your climate, and we will find out soon as the hot parts of the country get even hotter and report more range numbers.

To be fair, that should be "up to" 5.5 kW. The pump should be variable speed just like other EVs (I havent't come across documentation yet) so if less heat is needed, it can be run with a more conservative power draw.

The big factor with heat pump vs. resistive cabin heating (exlucding the heated seats & steering wheel, which somebody would probably turn on regardless of whether their ID.4 is equipped with a heat pump) is that a resisitve heater is 100% efficient meaning any electricity it consumes it being converted directly to heat, whereas the heat pump is running a compressor that moves heat that already exists. So in a more moderate climate it's possible the resistive heat demands are lower than the electrical needs to run the heat pump at its required setting. And in very cold environments, there may not be enough external heat to capture, so a heat pump would need to be supplemented by a resistive heater.

The good news is that it appears all of our ID.4s are capable of capturing "waste heat" from the battery and using that to supplement the cabin heat, which is a heat pump in its own right, and shouldn't consume any additional electricity.

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SunWizard

· #16 · May 4, 2021 (Edited)

Nai3t said:
To be fair, that should be "up to" 5.5 kW. The pump should be variable speed just like other EVs (I havent't come across documentation yet) so if less heat is needed, it can be run with a more conservative power draw.

True, its variable speed 600 to 8,600 rpm. That thing can get really screaming! Edit: the PTC cabin heater has variable output levels as well.

The big factor with heat pump vs. resistive cabin heating (exlucding the heated seats & steering wheel, which somebody would probably turn on regardless of whether their ID.4 is equipped with a heat pump) is that a resisitve heater is 100% efficient meaning any electricity it consumes it being converted directly to heat, whereas the heat pump is running a compressor that moves heat that already exists. So in a more moderate climate it's possible the resistive heat demands are lower than the electrical needs to run the heat pump at its required setting. And in very cold environments, there may not be enough external heat to capture, so a heat pump would need to be supplemented by a resistive heater.

I was not getting into the comparison of a heat pump that is not an option in the US, since that gets much more complex to compare. More about how often cabin heat will be needed versus AC.
And that the AC compressor will sometimes be running to cool the battery, motor, and 2 high power electronics even when you don't ask for cabin AC. Especially when on a road trip where all of that plus the DCFC creates lots of heat in the battery, motor, etc no matter the ambient temps.

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mkunz

· #17 · May 4, 2021

Additional AWD features in its favor: higher towing capacity and in California winter mountain driving, AWD usually gets a pass on requiring chains; even if the RWD appears to be good in snow, regs are regs.

LieutenantLefse

· #18 · May 5, 2021

TheBeavBC said:
So, I spoke to my salesperson informing him I was going to opt out of my AWD choice and go for the RWD instead. Told me if I did then I would drop to the bottom of the RWD list and may be looking at early 2022 for delivery. Said if I stayed with the AWD I could reasonably expect delivery in December. Think I’ll stick with the AWD choice, get it delivered, then make up my mind. Also put a deposit on a Q4, but I think the pricing may deter that choice.

For what it's worth I switched my order from AWD to RWD on April 6. I was also concerned I might lose my place in line, instead two days later the order locked, and the vehicle has now arrived in the US, according to the Great Wheel. Your milage (kilometerage?) may vary.

raadsel

· #19 · May 5, 2021

TheBeavBC said:
So, I spoke to my salesperson informing him I was going to opt out of my AWD choice and go for the RWD instead. Told me if I did then I would drop to the bottom of the RWD list and may be looking at early 2022 for delivery. Said if I stayed with the AWD I could reasonably expect delivery in December. Think I’ll stick with the AWD choice, get it delivered, then make up my mind. Also put a deposit on a Q4, but I think the pricing may deter that choice.

My recommendation is to place an order for the RWD. If the RWD is going to ship before the AWD does, then cancel your AWD order. Alternatively, try to find an ID.4 at a dealer where they person who ordered decided to cancel.

TheBeavBC

Discussion Starter · #20 · May 5, 2021

LieutenantLefse said:
For what it's worth I switched my order from AWD to RWD on April 6. I was also concerned I might lose my place in line, instead two days later the order locked, and the vehicle has now arrived in the US, according to the Great Wheel. Your milage (kilometerage?) may vary.

When your AWD arrives I’d be very interested in your personal review.

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