[GreyID4]

Wasn't there a negative crude price at one point?

Found it!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/business/oil-prices.html

 

[GreyID4]

I wonder what VW could possibly have done to prevent all the baseless speculation and hand-wringing?

So how will the latest news affect your plan for the Ides of April?

 

[matt awd pro s]

I wonder what VW could possibly have done to prevent all the baseless speculation and hand-wringing?

Actually, nothing. It is human nature, exacerbated by social media.

 

[Metier]

Actually, nothing. It is human nature, exacerbated by social media.

I don't know about that, maybe an email or any kind of communications on what is going on that might stop the speculations.

 

[Atlant]

So how will the latest news affect your plan for the Ides of April?

Well, I always suspected that @Huey52 was being optimistic; I had originally stated June but decided to adopt his optimism. ;-)

The real answer is “I dunno.” I really want VW to fix my car (and everybody else's) but frankly, I don't know how long I'm willing to wait. Some of that answer depends on whether or not VW really did just destroy everyone's resale value.

But I have started browsing used Volts and Audi Allroads (and Allroad A4s) again and maybe it really is time to visit my Chevy dealer to see what the schedules are like for new Bolts (or maybe even used Bolts).

 

[J21]

The fact that they did not notify all owners (ours is one of the last '21s, delivered May '22, no word from VW) suggests that VW planned all along to upgrade only some cars, re-group, and finish the rest with an improved process.
A sudden cancellation means trouble for owners and dealers who had resources scheduled for the service. Whatever the problem it suggests it reached an intolerable level to VW so they just told everyone to stop, nobody likes egg on their face, so it's gotta be a real problem.

• seeing as newer cars are delivered with newer software, it can't be the software or associated hardware, otherwise VW would halt deliveries also to avoid making even more trouble to fix down the road
• It could be some additional hardware/software problem in the car, but this seems unlikely given that various software updates have been made around the world, excluding the USA
• Seems likely there is an issue with the process between VW and the dealers, or at the dealers themselves like lack of training, poor instructions, or availability of hardware needed at the dealers or to install in the cars

Whatever the reason, hopefully it just means another delay which, I might forget about by the time the car and I are a lot older.

 

[mcden]

I don't know about that, maybe an email or any kind of communications on what is going on that might stop the speculations.

Don't know how much value that will bring. I think the appropriate response is to issue a response for affects vehicles with bad modules and provide an update or timeline of an update.

If the modules are indeed the issue they can either replace modules as they go bad and rewrite the software to not update any modules with limited capabilities or do the recall. Assuming that the modules belong to a third party there most likely looking to get compensated to fix the bad modules as well.

 

[ErickF]

Some number of 2021's were effectively Frankensteined together. Not all modules were sourced from the same suppliers. The ease and success (and alternatively failures) of some updates seem to show issues of overall supply chain quality.

• It could be some additional hardware/software problem in the car, but this seems unlikely given that various software updates have been made around the world, excluding the USA

 

[GreyID4]

The fact that they did not notify all owners (ours is one of the last '21s, delivered May '22, no word from VW) suggests that VW planned all along to upgrade only some cars, re-group, and finish the rest with an improved process.

I think you are right.
And IF that were the case, they could/should have communicated better with the customers that that's what they are planning to do.
I am not affected by the decision to stop the update, but I can see how frustrating it would be if I were.

 

[matt awd pro s]

Don't know how much value that will bring. I think the appropriate response is to issue a response for affects vehicles with bad modules and provide an update or timeline of an update.

If the modules are indeed the issue they can either replace modules as they go bad and rewrite the software to not update any modules with limited capabilities or do the recall. Assuming that the modules belong to a third party there most likely looking to get compensated to fix the bad modules as well.

Software needs to be designed up front for incremental or OTA updates. I assume that the reason for having to bring the car in to upgrade from 2.x is that the 2.x versions cannot be incrementally updated, requiring a full system wipe. No way you would want that happening in 10's of thousands of garages across the world opening up the possibility of 10's of thousands of tow truck trips. Better the controlled environment of a dealership. I am hoping that they got it right with 3.1 so that I can start getting OTAs at some point.

 

[NeverhadanEVbefore]

I for one believe nothing someone read on FB until I see it somewhere legit.

Great. You can now ignore the ID Drivers club on FB, which a) is run by VW Germany, b) cannot be entered into without a confirmed VIN, c) gets information on the regular a week or two before it's widely available.

Because it's unreliable, unlike this forum run by random individuals with zero ties to VW.

 

[Atlant]

Great. You can now ignore the ID Drivers club on FB, which a) is run by VW Germany, b) cannot be entered into without a confirmed VIN, c) gets information on the regular a week or two before it's widely available.

Because it's unreliable, unlike this forum run by random individuals with zero ties to VW.

Who are you replying to?

 

[Mark Magiera]

I did get the email telling me an update was coming… but It never came. Now, I suppose I have to hope they fix the update process and start again…

Edit: As an aside, I’m still waiting for the free 3G sunset fix for my Golf that they promised would be forthcoming in letter or email inviting me to schedule my car in to the dealer to have the 3G radio replaced with a 4G radio. That was promised by end of 2022.

Me too...
~ Got "2" emails about the ID4:FE software update (2nd one had the 97FY code too). My VIN never got the call up. Car was in 2 weeks ago for the suspension issue/ repair. Hood cable broke on the technician. It goes back to the dealer next week to fix that...
~ Also got the email (AND the letter) for my 2019 e-Golf for the "sunset 3G radio replacement."

Crickets from VWoA since. VWoA is focused on one thing: selling more cars...

As per Chris of Batterylife regarding 2.4 - the mandatory step on the way to 3.0 in Europe - the update has several parts, which need to be installed one by one, verifying every step and should something go wrong, the whole process needs to be re-started. So a tech needs to baby-sit the whole update. And there is a non-zero risk of bricking a module when doing the update.

Add to this comment the following applied to an ID undergoing said update:
~ the 12V battery (new one) needs to be connected to a 12V battery trickle charger during the update
~ the DC battery needs to be connected to a Level 2
~ the car updating needs to be connected to a dedicated internet connection (with adequate bandwidth & low latency), separate from the dealerships network ISP.
~ (this is the real killer) ID must be on the digital alignment machine (during the entire update). i.e. the Service Dept can't do alignments for other customers for the entire shift.

This whole service update campaign rollout by VW Corporate is like that scene from the 1st Matrix movie where Agent Smith (VW Corp) walks up to the Lieut. (dealer service departments). 97FY is very much an "oh s%!#" for service techs & managers.

VW in an attempt to rollout this entirely new platform coming on 3 years ago, have force fed dealerships to jump through all sorts of hoops to be in compliance (with a healthy dose of dealer expenditure$ in new equipment & staff "training" that wasn't "free").

Now that corporate has come to market with a flawed product, that smell of "team spirit" (not teen spirit) is costing on a product already assembled at a loss. So keep selling those new models dealers with 3.1!!!

Counting now the months toward the end of lease. Pretty sure that my FE will be scrapped by VW upon return & will be a data point with my payments to leverage their loss...

 

[NeverhadanEVbefore]

Who are you replying to?

The person I am quoting in my message.

 

[Huey52]

Well, I always suspected that @Huey52 was being optimistic; I had originally stated June but decided to adopt his optimism. ;-)

The real answer is “I dunno.” I really want VW to fix my car (and everybody else's) but frankly, I don't know how long I'm willing to wait. Some of that answer depends on whether or not VW really did just destroy everyone's resale value.

But I have started browsing used Volts and Audi Allroads (and Allroad A4s) again and maybe it really is time to visit my Chevy dealer to see what the schedules are like for new Bolts (or maybe even used Bolts).

Whoddathunkit way back when that even my [actually safeguard-pessimistic at the time] Ides of March 2023 projection might be in jeopardy. 🤷‍♂️

I still miss my 2013 allroad (then essentially A5 chassis with A4 Avant cabin; and also then lowercase 'a').

 

[Huey52]

...
But I have started browsing used Volts and Audi Allroads (and Allroad A4s) again and maybe it really is time to visit my Chevy dealer to see what the schedules are like for new Bolts (or maybe even used Bolts).

Hmmmmm.....

 

[carvellwakeman]

Can't be done.

As per Chris of Batterylife regarding 2.4 - the mandatory step on the way to 3.0 in Europe - the update has several parts, which need to be installed one by one, verifying every step and should something go wrong, the whole process needs to be re-started. So a tech needs to baby-sit the whole update. And there is a non-zero risk of bricking a module when doing the update.

Why not? I'm referencing what could be, not what's currently done. No reason you can't install an update in chunks, retry when necessary, and report faults back to the mothership & techs for manual diagnosis. Unless someone needs to pull out a wrench and flash a module on the bench, I can't see a good reason they can't make this process more stable. However, plenty of reasons an org wouldn't - missing competencies, poor or inconsistent decisions, risk vs reward, time and/or money budget, etc. I find this problem fascinating hence my speculation.

Everything else is baseless speculation and hand-wringing.

I spent decades developing large, complex software systems. My guess is that their upgrade process is not idiot-proof [...]

Speculation can be fun if it's not wrapped up in feelings or pushing opinion as fact!

I'm approaching a decade in large software systems, definitely agree with you that the process is likely not stable enough. If you have N 'modules' that each have M variants you're looking at exponential configurations. A great number of those can likely be grouped into one flow, and I'd bet big that VW knows exactly which modules are in every car. However, understanding what/why each module variant can fail is a different beast. Even in the edge case configurations that fail, I don't see why the updater script can't phone home and have someone outside the dealership deal with the hard problems remotely. I hear stories about service techs calling vw tech support, who say "idk try again". Where are the engineers pouring over data?

 

[Nai3t]

No reason you can't install an update in chunks, retry when necessary, and report faults back to the mothership & techs for manual diagnosis. Unless someone needs to pull out a wrench and flash a module on the bench, I can't see a good reason they can't make this process more stable.

One reason: money. If VW could have simplified this process, they would have, because they are paying the dealerships gobs of money to perform these updates That's basically the primary point of that leaked memo, saying to dealerships: "we will no longer reimburse you for this procedure from this point forward; submit your reimbursement requests for work performed."

 

[ericy]

Some number of 2021's were effectively Frankensteined together. Not all modules were sourced from the same suppliers. The ease and success (and alternatively failures) of some updates seem to show issues of overall supply chain quality.

That kind of goes along with what I was hearing from Europe. But it isn't just one module that was sourced from multiple suppliers - it is apparently not easy to completely predict which cars will update smoothly and which ones will run into trouble, nor is it easy to predict which modules would fail. Although I suppose an insider might be able to make some predictions, if they were in a position to publicly comment on the matter.

 

[VW Dave]

One thing puzzles me. Don't think it's been mentioned yet, sorry if it has.

It's been reported that most '22s were updated at the port. Could be the port of export, or import, I don't know. In any case, thousands of '22s were successfully updated to 3.1 prior to delivery. Was the success of this update due to those cars having something higher than 2.1 when they left the factory, making the updates easier? Or if they went from 2.1 to 3.1, why did it work well?

My wild guess/speculation is the weakest point in this upgrade is at the dealer level. The '22 cars that were updated at the port(s) were probably worked on by a team of factory trained specialists who really knew what they were doing.

If I have any of the '22 port update info wrong, feel free to correct me.