Volkswagen ID Forum banner
1 - 20 of 78 Posts

·
Registered User
ID.4 1st Edition White / Lunar Grey
Joined
·
947 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm getting a mixed signal and I'm curious if VW has hit a home run, is struggling at the plate, or has sort of a "Steady Eddie" on their hands.

Searching Car Gurus 150 miles out (SF Bay area and Sacramento, comprising about 20 dealerships), I see 100 ID.4s listed, 45 of which are 1st Editions.

I know this isn't 100% representative as dealerships have been listing "spoken for" vehicles as a matter of course, even before they arrive. So many are not necessarily available to sell, nor even on the lot to see in person. It feels like there are plenty of ID.4s for the picking.

But also, I reside in an EV-popular region, so I expect there are more represented here than in other parts of the country.

On the Facebook ID.4 group, dealership sales reps have joined and are frequently posting ID.4s for sale, many stating outright "at MSRP." This implies they're trying to drum up business, and may be having trouble moving them. On person in the NY region even posted their dealer was discounting below sticker.

At the same time, numerous posters here and on FB are getting (and me, in March, calling around) are getting quoted ridiculous markups, or being pressured to accept Tier 2 & 3 APRs.

One poster (don't recall if here or Facebook) said their dealership was picking up 30 from other dealerships with canceled reservations.

So is this a Jekyll / Hyde depending on region? More granular down to a dealership-by-dealership? The answer doesn't affect me too much -- my wife and I are still both thrilled with the car. But I want to see it succeed on a large scale to ensure we get proper support and updates. Though, for the time being, it does feel "special" driving the only one in the neighborhood (feels like the only one in town!).
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
280 Posts
I was the FE in my area. The dealer got another on condition that they just use it as a demo. My salesman got on the computer and got 4 Pro S models from other dealers. He has sold the three white ones and has the Moonstone Gray one in the show room.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
10 Posts
I was the FE in my area. The dealer got another on condition that they just use it as a demo. My salesman got on the computer and got 4 Pro S models from other dealers. He has sold the three white ones and has the Moonstone Gray one in the show room.
I have noticed a lot of local dealers show the car on their site and then when you click on them it shows it has a pending sale which might account for some of the inventory listings. I have one on order and noticed a different local dealer has the one I ordered not pending. I contacted them and mention I would be interested if they could knock a little off MSRP. they responded they are not selling below MSRP and some other local dealers are selling above MSRP. So I feel if the sales were that bad they would be willing to deal a bit.
 

·
Registered User
2021 ID.4 First Edition (Dusk Blue)
Joined
·
310 Posts
I get the impression that VW is getting a fair number of reservation cancelations but also that they are not having any problems selling them in short order.
 

·
Premium Member
VW ID.4 1st (picked up 3/19/21).
Joined
·
929 Posts
I get the impression that VW is getting a fair number of reservation cancelations but also that they are not having any problems selling them in short order.
Honestly people only had 500$ down that they could easily get back. And the conversion rate for other cars is rarely revealed, but people speculate a lot about Tesla sales and all that (in the 25-50% range for Tesla). So it wouldn't surprise me if a good chunk of the reservations get cancelled.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
201 Posts
Within 75 miles of my zip code there are 10 FE, 2 Pro, and !0 Pro S. The same type of search a couple of weeks ago had 3 cars total (can't remember the mix).

What does that mean? I have no idea. lol. They could be cars in inventory but spoken for. Truecar says the Average price is 252 dollars above MSRP, two weeks ago it was 550.
 

·
Registered User
2021 ID.4 First Edition (Dusk Blue)
Joined
·
310 Posts
Honestly people only had 500$ down that they could easily get back. And the conversion rate for other cars is rarely revealed, but people speculate a lot about Tesla sales and all that (in the 25-50% range for Tesla). So it wouldn't surprise me if a good chunk of the reservations get cancelled.
Yeah the number of canceled reservations doesn't mean much. It's how long the cars are sitting on the lots that matters. I've heard that the cars are moving and that people are buying over MSRP, but it's very early and I think only time will tell.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
201 Posts
Yeah the number of canceled reservations doesn't mean much. It's how long the cars are sitting on the lots that matters. I've heard that the cars are moving and that people are buying over MSRP, but it's very early and I think only time will tell.
I agree that time on the lot is a good indicator. I remember years ago when I bought a Mini, that they had the best time-on-lot average of 3.5 days per vehicle, while GM had some cars that averaged 200+ days.
Another factor to consider, however, is that it's rather "easy" to have a quickly-selling car when the numbers are so puny. My nearest Honda dealer sells 600 cars a month, so selling an ID4 per week is really tiny.
 

·
Registered User
2021 ID.4 First Edition (Dusk Blue)
Joined
·
310 Posts
I agree that time on the lot is a good indicator. I remember years ago when I bought a Mini, that they had the best time-on-lot average of 3.5 days per vehicle, while GM had some cars that averaged 200+ days.
Another factor to consider, however, is that it's rather "easy" to have a quickly-selling car when the numbers are so puny. My nearest Honda dealer sells 600 cars a month, so selling an ID4 per week is really tiny.
Yup. Having a quick selling car at this juncture doesn't tell you much. Having a slow selling car with such small numbers, however. tells you a ton. All of it bad.

That being said, I doubt that the ID.4s are sitting that long on the lots right now. They are pushing these cars HARD. I called a dealership last week and the very first thing I heard was a recording about the ID.4. Owning a ID.4, I see no reason why this car won't be a good-to-great seller so long as VW makes them in numbers. The reality is that Americans love SUVs and there is plenty of the SUV pie to go around considering there are only 2 (soon to be 3) - ID.4, Mach-E, Ioniq 5 - EV SUVs in the same price range.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
166 Posts
I have a Pro S on order with an Aug to Sept delivery estimate, but today found a First Edition at a different dealer that otherwise matches my color choices. I had some texts back and forth with a salesman and it was a reservation for someone else who ended up canceling when the car arrived. I'm supposed to get some numbers on Monday.

An interesting sidelight to this story is that I have bought two cars from this dealer in the past but was very poorly treated when I tried to buy a third and ended up at a different dealer. I let today's salesman know this and advised that I wasn't interested in going through that stereotypical car sales BS again. We'll see if that affects what I see on Monday. ;)

As a new model in the EV segment which doesn't have near the available choices that people have for ICE cars at this price point -- and with the supply pipeline still not fully loaded -- many, if not most, of the current ID4 buyers are in the "early adopter" category. And that typically means they are willing to pay a premium. Top that off with VW chasing a slightly different group of buyers than those who go after Teslas or other higher-end EVs. As such, I suspect prices will stay up for a while longer. If unsold inventory does start piling up -- and that's a gamble -- it will be later this year. (And then that would just be for the RWD models. The AWDs won't be available until this fall or winter, so the availability issue starts all over for that model.) Unless the ID4 somehow ends up flopping, I'd guess that it'd be well into 2022 before one starts seeing typical car discounts.
 

·
Registered User
2021 ID.4 First Edition (Dusk Blue)
Joined
·
310 Posts
I have a Pro S on order with an Aug to Sept delivery estimate, but today found a First Edition at a different dealer that otherwise matches my color choices. I had some texts back and forth with a salesman and it was a reservation for someone else who ended up canceling when the car arrived. I'm supposed to get some numbers on Monday.

An interesting sidelight to this story is that I have bought two cars from this dealer in the past but was very poorly treated when I tried to buy a third and ended up at a different dealer. I let today's salesman know this and advised that I wasn't interested in going through that stereotypical car sales BS again. We'll see if that affects what I see on Monday. ;)

As a new model in the EV segment which doesn't have near the available choices that people have for ICE cars at this price point -- and with the supply pipeline still not fully loaded -- many, if not most, of the current ID4 buyers are in the "early adopter" category. And that typically means they are willing to pay a premium. Top that off with VW chasing a slightly different group of buyers than those who go after Teslas or other higher-end EVs. As such, I suspect prices will stay up for a while longer. If unsold inventory does start piling up -- and that's a gamble -- it will be later this year. (And then that would just be for the RWD models. The AWDs won't be available until this fall or winter, so the availability issue starts all over for that model.) Unless the ID4 somehow ends up flopping, I'd guess that it'd be well into 2022 before one starts seeing typical car discounts.
Good luck! IMO if you were going to buy a Pro S and find a FE with the colors you like, it's almost a no-brainer not to buy it. It's like getting a free gradient upgrade, basically.

Also, the black leatherette doesn't have that ugly brown.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
166 Posts
The only thing about the FE is that I'd prefer the 19" wheels of the Pro S. That said, the FE is a shade cheaper, and the FEs I've test driven have handled well on poor roads, so it is one of those preferences that probably won't stand in my way if the deal is fair.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
405 Posts
I live close to the geographical center of the US and own the only ID4 in the area and almost the only one in the state of Arkansas. EV's and hybrids do not sale well here. Big trucks and big SUVs sell well here! But even those are in short supply as a result of the pandemic and chip shortages. Used ones are bringing a premium. Now that the ID4 has been named World Car of the Year, I believe this will go a long way to increasing sales. For me personally, the ID4 is the best vehicle I have ever owned in my 55+ year of buying vehicles. As the word gets out and more interest is generated sales will pick up. Folks who have seen my ID4 are interested in it and ask questions about it.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
201 Posts
I live close to the geographical center of the US and own the only ID4 in the area and almost the only one in the state of Arkansas. EV's and hybrids do not sale well here. Big trucks and big SUVs sell well here! But even those are in short supply as a result of the pandemic and chip shortages. Used ones are bringing a premium. Now that the ID4 has been named World Car of the Year, I believe this will go a long way to increasing sales. For me personally, the ID4 is the best vehicle I have ever owned in my 55+ year of buying vehicles. As the word gets out and more interest is generated sales will pick up. Folks who have seen my ID4 are interested in it and ask questions about it.
There are very few cars that cost 44k and have only 200 HP. Yes the ID4 has some wonderful attributes, but once you get beyond the political buyers, the real meat and potatoes buyer is going to scratch his head at the costs.
 

·
Registered User
2021 ID.4 First Edition (Dusk Blue)
Joined
·
310 Posts
There are very few cars that cost 44k and have only 200 HP. Yes the ID4 has some wonderful attributes, but once you get beyond the political buyers, the real meat and potatoes buyer is going to scratch his head at the costs.
But the ID.4 Pro costs $41,190 (including destination) and is $33,690 after Federal tax credit. That's solidly RAV4 territory.
 

·
Registered User
2021 ID.4 First Edition (Dusk Blue)
Joined
·
310 Posts
But the ID.4 Pro costs $41,190 and is $33,690 after Federal tax credit. That's solidly RAV4 territory.
Plus a RAV4 buyer who does heavy local driving (say, someone who drives 200 miles a day) but can plugin every day will save thousands a year in fuel costs. Off the top of my head, someone like sales rep or whatever would jump at the swap from a middle-trim RAV4 to an ID.4.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
201 Posts
Plus a RAV4 buyer who does heavy local driving (say, someone who drives 200 miles a day) but can plugin every day will save thousands a year in fuel costs. Off the top of my head, someone like sales rep or whatever would jump at the swap from a middle-trim RAV4 to an ID.4.
I suppose. But the RAV4 starts at 26k I believe, and 200 miles per day drivers exist, but I doubt the numbers for that are very high. With that kind of miIeage I would guess a vehicle with a long warranty might play an important role in a buying decision.

One thing I haven't heard too much discussion on, is how long a battery can last if you charge it for 80 percent of its capacity on a daily basis.
 

·
Registered User
2021 ID.4 First Edition (Dusk Blue)
Joined
·
310 Posts
I suppose. But the RAV4 starts at 26k I believe, and 200 miles per day drivers exist, but I doubt the numbers for that are very high. With that kind of miIeage I would guess a vehicle with a long warranty might play an important role in a buying decision.

One thing I haven't heard too much discussion on, is how long a battery can last if you charge it for 80 percent of its capacity on a daily basis.
All I know is that Toyota sells zillions of the RAV4 Hybrids (219 horsepower) and if VW can net even a fraction of these sales with the ID.4, they'll be doing fine.
3469
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
166 Posts
For the first quarter of 2021, Tesla 3/Y sales doubled to 180K units over the prior year. All without a tax credit. Toyota sold 528K vehicles, but that was all models and 25% of that figure was EV/hybrid/fuel cell cars. Meanwhile VW sold about 500 ID4s in the first quarter (first deliveries), so they definitely have room to grow.

I think VW has made a smart move in orienting the ID4 toward a slightly different market than those who are buying Teslas, Mach-Es and the like. I'm nowhere close to a suburban SUV mom (old fart would be a better description) but the ID4 rings more bells for me than any other EV currently on the market. I suspect many others will agree.
 
1 - 20 of 78 Posts
Top