[Riot]

The slow software genuinely makes the car experience bad. At least for me, I do not understand how this was allowed to go out in this state.

I was fine with it for a while because it was a new car, new driving experience. Everything about the car is amazing EXCEPT the software and no one pedal driving(which i can live without). Now that i have been driving it for almost 2k miles, driving has become a normal experience and the frustration of the software being slow grows, i want to get in my car and turn on the AC. Not sit there and wait for the software to take 1-2 mins to wake up and then move at 2 fps to the menu. I understand it goes into a deep sleep, i think that is okay but my laptop can start up and be at the desktop in 12 seconds on average, so i feel like it isn't unreasonable to ask a $45k-$50k car to do the same.

Another thing that makes the experience worse is getting into another person car and their software is super fast and snappy. It makes my car feel like it wasn't worth the value, almost feel like i would have bought the car for 25k and the 25k discount was to let me write the software, atleast if my software breaks i can only blame myself the 1 developer not a 250 billion(2021 EUR revenue) dollar company.

If the software isn't out or it comes out and doesn't solve basic issues like the performance of the software in the next year, i will be selling it as other car companies are coming out with similar cars with better software, more features, and a similar price tag. Which would be disappointing because i was excited for VW. This is my first VW car and everything about it was so exciting to support a company planning on swapping the majority of their cars to EVs. I WANT to support it, but imo it isn't worth it if basic software is a problem for the company. I don't need OTA updates, i could even go into a service center if it meant fixing it but even the service centers were like /shrug.

 

[VW Dave]

Every current owner (like me) shares your pain. EDIT: Should have said Most or Many, not Every.

Carvana will give me $45,215 for my ‘21 Pro S Gradient AWD. And my dealer has begged me to talk to them first if I want out.

It’s very very tempting because I’m so tired of getting no answers from VW on when or even if my car’s software will be upgraded.

 

[Eric Nay]

I'm over 9000 miles, with the 10,000 mile appointment pending. I'm trying to hang on until the mythical creature arrives, and I could get both taken care of at once. I have 51 error codes in my car, and problems with charging while hot, and was told "the pending software will fix it". Pretty frustrating, but I have very little power in this relationship. My only choice is to sell it and move on, but most of the alternatives seem to be worse right now.

 

[VW Dave]

I'm over 9000 miles, with the 10,000 mile appointment pending. I'm trying to hang on until the mythical creature arrives, and I could get both taken care of at once. I have 51 error codes in my car, and problems with charging while hot, and was told "the pending software will fix it". Pretty frustrating, but I have very little power in this relationship. My only choice is to sell it and move on, but most of the alternatives seem to be worse right now.

I have the 2021 ID.4 with 2100 miles on it, and a 2018 Audi Q5 with 54,000 miles on it.

A week ago I did a full VCDS scan on both cars. The Audi had 2 trivial fault codes. OTOH, the ID.4 had dozens of faults, including the HV battery, both front and rear motors, the charging system, and much more. I cleared all the codes that would clear but I'm sure they'll all come right back. Most faults were described as "Implausible Signal'.

 

[Oddfellow]

A week ago I did a full VCDS scan on both cars.

Is there a way to do this scan with OBDII or does it require one of the $100+ devices I'm seeing online?

 

[Manybees]

Every current owner (like me) shares your pain.

I’m a current owner who doesn’t share this pain, so be careful of making such easily falsifiable generalizations. Other than slow startup times, the software works fine for me. I was surprised because after reading all the wailing and gnashing of teeth on this forum about terrible software, I was expecting something unusable. For me, it’s fine — responsive and gets the job done. Never had it crash, freeze, stutter, or do anything weird. Owned the car for 5 months and 6300 miles.

 

[Nai3t]

Anyone have timeline or a link to a post about the timeline for 3.0/3.1 release in the USA?

Yes. Diess' AMA proclamation of "Summer."

That, as far as I know, is the only official timeline VW has provided. And that was just prior to 2.4 software being pulled back for a couple months of rework at the last minute. But the "Summer" comment has never been rescinded nor amended.

 

[JoeFJ]

If the 3.1 software is installed on the 2022 models being delivered, it seems the issue may not be the software but “other issues” updating from an earlier versions. Doesn’t seem to make sense.

 

[Nai3t]

Yeah @JoeFJ it doesn't make sense, but only because we don't know most of what's going on inside VW.

Think how crazy all of this is... Scheduled Charging was a "feature" back in version 1.9 or whatever the ID.3 launched with in 2020 (itself months late due to software. That's taken 2 years and 4 software updates to finally resolve.

VW manufactured the 2022 ID.4 for five months before having software ready for it, despite all the press demos.

2.4 got yanked the day leading up to it being deployed for updates at dealerships.

2.4 is rolling out to 2021s in Europe but not in the US, where we're told we're going to jump straight to 3.1.

We're expecting new batteries, but if there was truly no hope of software coming, why then haven't we are least heard about the batteries?

So again, you're right, none of this makes sense. VW is doing it on their timeline as they see fit. I have no doubt it is coming, though.

 

[VW Dave]

I’m a current owner who doesn’t share this pain, so be careful of making such easily falsifiable generalizations. Other than slow startup times, the software works fine for me. I was surprised because after reading all the wailing and gnashing of teeth on this forum about terrible software, I was expecting something unusable. For me, it’s fine — responsive and gets the job done. Never had it crash, freeze, stutter, or do anything weird. Owned the car for 5 months and 6300 miles.

You are reading more into my post than is actually there. I go back and forth on “I can live with this” and the fact that VW tells us NOTHING. Dozens of fault codes isn’t normal for a new car that had all codes cleared the day of delivery and at 2109 miles has dozens of them.

I’ve said before, I can live with everything except the ESC issue. Today I’m a lot more frustrated by our situation.

You can take either of my positions and make anything you want out of them. My evolving position on this is documented on this board so you or Panzer or anyone can easily throw my own words back at me. Ha.

Also, I find it hard to believe you have zero frustration over any of this. But maybe that’s your true position. I’m not arguing with it.

EDIT: I agree I should have said Most or Many, not Every. Guilty.

 

[Manybees]

You are reading more into my post than is actually there. I go back and forth on “I can live with this” and the fact that VW tells us NOTHING. Dozens of fault codes isn’t normal for a new car that had all codes cleared the day of delivery and at 2109 miles has dozens of them.

I’ve said before, I can live with everything except the ESC issue. Today I’m a lot more frustrated by our situation.

You can take either of my positions and make anything you want out of them. My evolving position on this is documented on this board so you or Panzer or anyone can easily throw my own words back at me. Ha.

Also, I find it hard to believe you have zero frustration over any of this. But maybe that’s your true position. I’m not arguing with it.

You literally said “Every current owner (like me) shares your pain”, which is not exactly a nuanced statement and simply isn’t true. You could just as easily have said “some current owners” or “many current owners” but you chose instead for the most black and white statement, which puzzles me as your actual viewpoint seems to be more subtle than that.

 

[VW Dave]

You literally said “Every current owner (like me) shares your pain”, which is not exactly a nuanced statement and simply isn’t true. You could just as easily have said “some current owners” or “many current owners” but you chose instead for the most black and white statement, which puzzles me as your actual viewpoint seems to be more subtle than that.

I just humbly retracted that.

 

[Manybees]

I just humbly retracted that.

I appreciate that, and I apologize if I seem testy, but from my experience with my 2021 ID.4 I honestly can‘t understand all the hate the car gets over the software. And I stress “in my experience,” btw; I’m not saying others haven’t had real problems, as well as perceived problems.

At any rate, I don’t use scheduled charging, and I’ve never experienced the ESC issue on my AWD, but everything else I’ve tried seems to work as designed, and as I already said, I’ve not seen a single glitchy thing (freezes, stuttering, reboots, blank screens). Is the software in my car perfect? No. Are there more features I’d like to see? Yes. Is the software in the vehicle I bought causing me any grief or pain? No. So for me it’s at least adequate, but certainly not unpleasant to deal with.

In the end, my experience is just another data point among many. I’m always loathe to jump to any general conclusions that apply to all owners based on my single experience, but I feel like I need to at least put my experience out there as a counter example to the complaints.

 

[VW Dave]

Sometimes choice of words is influenced by current degree of frustration. This week I’m feeling VERY frustrated by VW’s treatment of early adopters.

Let me see if I can count how many VWs I’ve owned, most purchased new, going back to 1979. Point being this isn’t my first rodeo with VW.

Processing…

It’s +/- 15. I can tell you ugly stories about several of them. But I always come back because I love the cars.

The ID.4 is new technology. I bought it eyes wide open (actually two of them, RWD and the current AWD). But we existing owners are over a year into ownership of the model and VW has done NOTHING to address issues. Nothing. They’ve told us NOTHING. Nobody outside of Wolfsburg (or wherever) knows if current owners will get any fixes.

Now if an owner is fine with that, more power to you. Me, I go back and forth on accepting the car as it is, vs expecting VW to please tell me SOMETHING I can rely on regarding updates. And I mean specific to US owners, who seem to be treated like aliens by VW.

I’m sorry but right now today I’m extremely frustrated. Maybe I’ll wake up tomorrow and say Who cares?

 

[Manybees]

Sometimes choice of words is influenced by current degree of frustration. This week I’m feeling VERY frustrated by VW’s treatment of early adopters.

Let me see if I can count how many VWs I’ve owned, most purchased new, going back to 1979. Point being this isn’t my first rodeo with VW.

Processing…

It’s +/- 15. I can tell you ugly stories about several of them. But I always come back because I love the cars.

The ID.4 is new technology. I bought it eyes wide open (actually two of them, RWD and the current AWD). But we existing owners are over a year into ownership of the model and VW has done NOTHING to address issues. Nothing. They’ve told us NOTHING. Nobody outside of Wolfsburg (or wherever) knows if current owners will get any fixes.

Now if an owner is fine with that, more power to you. Me, I go back and forth on accepting the car as it is, vs expecting VW to please tell me SOMETHING I can rely on regarding updates. And I mean specific to US owners, who seem to be treated like aliens by VW.

I’m sorry but right now today I’m extremely frustrated. Maybe I’ll wake up tomorrow and say Who cares?

I agree with you about the lack of communication. It can be frustrating because I think the car itself is great (on a 500 mile road trip last week, my spouse turned on the massaging passenger seat and just blurted out “I love this car! It’s a road trip comfort cruiser!“ — no prompting from me, honest!), but it certainly could be better. And VW has had multiple opportunities to exceed my admittedly low expectations regarding telling current owners what’s going on regarding a software roadmap and timelines. But instead of reaching out to the people who’d like the car to succeed, they withdraw into a cone of silence. In my mind, these are separate issues from my day-to-day experience with my car as it is, so I just try to enjoy what I have today and not worry too much about stuff that’s out of my power to change.

 

[VW Dave]

Also also

I completely get why VW is saying and admitting nothing. If they tell us “We understand your frustration with current deficiencies…” the media headline will be “VW Admits ID.4 Is Defective!”.

 

[Erhard]

Also also

I completely get why VW is saying and admitting nothing. If they tell us “We understand your frustration with current deficiencies…” the media headline will be “VW Admits ID.4 Is Defective!”.

I disagree with that statement about VWs way of behaving. Having imperfections on a new product is not so unusual and most people would accept and understand this. But as mentioned many times, the non communication is really bad and unprofessional behavior toward the customer.
Fwiw the dealer yesterday said even the new cars delivered now do have the old software and upgrade would take around 10 hours with a special device only the dealer has. And because having only one device guarantees for a very slow throughput. He also did not have any time information.
And yes i am also deeply frustrated with 12k miles. As said above for a $50k car one would expect way more.
For me VW screwed it up big time and this is my last VW. I feel bad for the mechanical engineers who did overall a great job just to have the car messed up by VW s arrogance and bad software. Really sad.

 

[Riot]

I appreciate that, and I apologize if I seem testy, but from my experience with my 2021 ID.4 I honestly can‘t understand all the hate the car gets over the software. And I stress “in my experience,” btw; I’m not saying others haven’t had real problems, as well as perceived problems.

At any rate, I don’t use scheduled charging, and I’ve never experienced the ESC issue on my AWD, but everything else I’ve tried seems to work as designed, and as I already said, I’ve not seen a single glitchy thing (freezes, stuttering, reboots, blank screens). Is the software in my car perfect? No. Are there more features I’d like to see? Yes. Is the software in the vehicle I bought causing me any grief or pain? No. So for me it’s at least adequate, but certainly not unpleasant to deal with.

In the end, my experience is just another data point among many. I’m always loathe to jump to any general conclusions that apply to all owners based on my single experience, but I feel like I need to at least put my experience out there as a counter example to the complaints.

What version of software are you on? As far as i was aware the AWD shipped with 3.0 software. If so that gives us that are on the previous versions some hope. If you haven't experienced any major slow down with the software that means there is a really nice improvement coming. That said if i am wrong and you have the same version we have(2.1 i think) then i am very jelouse of your experience haha.

 

[Manybees]

What version of software are you on? As far as i was aware the AWD shipped with 3.0 software. If so that gives us that are on the previous versions some hope. If you haven't experienced any major slow down with the software that means there is a really nice improvement coming. That said if i am wrong and you have the same version we have(2.1 i think) then i am very jelouse of your experience haha.

I‘m on 2.1 as well. Car was built in Dec 2021. The system is fast enough to be used and certainly not stuttering and lagging all the time. I’m not sure what people are comparing the ID.4 software to, so it’s hard to know what others expect.

 

[ExCivilian]

you chose instead for the most black and white statement

To be fair, you chose to read it in the most black and white interpretation possible.

(like me) modified every so the sentence, in native English anyway, did not claim every ID.4 owner shared the same frustrations...only those that were like VW Dave; ie, those who are frustrated about specific features missing and/or broken that have been promised to be addressed for well over a year now.

That said, if you aren't using features like scheduled charging, which are at least some of the bulk of the source of frustration for such owners, then how can you realistically respond in a fair way to that criticism? If my gas flap was stuck closed and I couldn't drive my car, it wouldn't be a legitimate rebuttal of yours to state that you haven't needed to fuel up in six months because you work from home so there's no problem from your perspective. Regardless of whether you want that feature to work, it's a critical function for battery management. I've explained elsewhere why external EVSEs that have scheduling features don't suffice because the charge curve relies on scheduled charging.

Every customer who does not have a working scheduled charging feature is experiencing permanent battery degradation at every charge. Now, you may not notice the degradation depending on your driving habits but that's not relevant to whether it's happening--only to whether you care that it's happening.

I’m not sure what people are comparing the ID.4 software to, so it’s hard to know what others expect.

At this point, US ID4 owners can compare it to non-US ID4 owners. From my perspective, customers have been very clear on what they expect given their base expectation is clear and accurate communication from VW, which has been their failing point in regards to US customers for decades so that's unlikely to get better despite earlier proclamations to the contrary.