[mtc416]

Short answer, no.

The MY is fast, the software works well, and the charging network is definitely better right now for road trips. Those are the good points for it.

My AWD id4 is fast enough. The acceleration thing is novel for a bit, but if you're a grown up, it wears off fast. I've raced supercars. MY performance could keep up with many of them off the line, but that's it. The real treat of performance driving is only marginally there... and even that your don't do often in the real world.

The software has to be good in the Tesla, or you can't open your glove box, scratch your ass, or anything else. That's poor design made up for with software. I'd rather have good design (overall... Def big misses with window switches, etc, but overall good in id4) with a little sluggish software that I don't need to use that often, than very mediocre build quality and design with a supercomputer bolted awkwardly to the dash to try to make up for it's many shortcomings.

Charging: first, they're about same range, due to Musk's hyperexaggerations and VW overdelivering. For fast charging... We have 2 vacation houses that we rent out most of the year, one well within single charge range of the id4(so not an issue at all), other is almost 500 miles. If we went to that far house frequently, the charging issue would be a much bigger challenge for us. The id4 is capable, but far from convenient, for longer trips like this on a routine basis. Tesla would be better here for the time being, but you have to spend all that time in a shoddy interior with bad build quality, high insurance, getting looks from everyone associating you with one of the most obnoxious fanboy groups that exist, etc. If I was doing this regularly, one of our vehicles would be a phev, not a Tesla. In fact, the rav4 prime was my choice before I moved to id4, but then I evaluated how we use a vehicle 99.5% of the time, and for us lugging around that ice, and all the maintenance etc associated with it, wasn't remotely worth it. We can rent/borrow a car for those trips, take the extra time in the id4, or for the time being, drive our other vehicle that's a regular ice.

Everything else about Tesla is a letdown.

Take away the clown in charge, and cut the price another 20k, and it would be a discussion to have.

All you guys cancelling orders and switching to MY, good luck. You're still overpaying drastically. I get it on the wait... I got tired of waiting too, so I didn't wait anymore. Bought my 2023 AWD Pro S in Tourmeline Blue with Cosmic interior for almost 2k under MSRP on new years eve. It was everything I had ordered except paint color. I avoided the price bump, got a discount, got tax credit a year earlier, got my car much sooner than my reservation would have come, etc. All for the cost of going to my second choice on paint color and a series of phone calls to every dealer within 100 miles that had one of this spec in the VW inventory (all reserved at the time). I got myself set as a serious buyer ready to close the deal immediately when one of these feel through. Made those calls in less time than it's taken me to write this comment, on Thursday and Friday before new years. One of the dealers I called Friday called me Saturday (the very next day), I drove an hour, and came back with my car. Got 3 more calls the next few days of other cars that became available.

So no, wouldn't touch a Tesla for same price or even quite a bit less, even if I could pick my colors etc and drive it off the lot same day. It's too big of a downgrade.

 

[mtc416]

Over promising and under delivering, far, far later than promised, with a little lying and deception upon supposed delivery, is kinda the Tesla/Musk m.o.

Then the fanboys come on here after Musk has to drastically cut pricing to move his overpriced, overhyped toy cars, and try to spin it like he's making a brilliant move.

It's kinda funny, but mostly just really sad.

 

[mtc416]

Why do Tesla fan boys get so triggered when someone says they don't care for Tesla (for whatever reason)? I have been a brand loyalist to VW but they have made some PoS over the years and I've been happy to bad mouth them when they have screwed up. I have driven the Tesla models and I'm just not impressed w the interior quality and overall attention to detail and craftsmanship. I think the constant false promises and snake oil salesman approach from Musk just leave me thinking that the company is a bad weekend from imploding. I know they aren't but the marketing from the CEO doesn't project confidence.

My coworker has a Model 3 and the degradation of the interior was a big red flag for me. My 12 year old Tahoe has held up ridiculously better than his 3 year old Tesla. His steering wheel is completely peeled off as well as around the side bolsters, etc. and just looks like a 15 year old daily driver. The software and tech is probably the most advanced across EVs but that's the only real win IMO.

Exactly. Tesla fanboys be like "Elon's farts are so fresh the flowers outside his office bloom earlier, longer, bigger, brighter, and with better tech."

VW fans (this is my first VW, so I'm personally not remotely brand loyal) at least seem capable to admitting that VW sucks major dookie at software. That they should have used 4 window switches. That the reservation system was a mess. We don't like those things, would like them to improve and are totally willing to call VW out for it... All while still overall liking their cars.

Best sign someone is totally brainwashed and an uncritical thinker, is their not being able to criticize things that they like, or stand any implication from others that their object of obsession isn't the best possible ever in every way.

Tesla fanboys are probably even worse than Apple fanboys. Yikes!

 

[mtc416]

View attachment 20389
Another price hike, No OTA, infotainment system still trash and Tesla cuts price 20% for the MY. Just ordered an MY. 👋 see ya Volkswagen!

Don't let the door hit you where the good Lord slit you.

Bye troll!

 

[mtc416]

No way, I wouldn’t buy one at any price - there’s no comparison between the two in the looks department, IMO. Nor in the build quality and comfort department. The ID.4 exceeds my daily needs and is a joy to drive. But ask me again in a year, if nothing goes lopsided with my VW 😂.

View attachment 20403

Man... never needed to, but never saw a direct side by side like that. Man that thing is hideous.

 

[mtc416]

This is why I lost patience with VW & their antics with failing to roll out an update.

NOTE: timestamp 9:20...

I posted longer response to this video elsewhere, but short version is think about what he's saying. Tesla cheapened the shit out of the car to make higher profits off of you.

How exactly does this benefit the consumer?

 

[mtc416]

A lot of what Munro recommends isn’t for the good of the purchaser… it’s about making it cheaper to build and harder to work on.

Bingo. Cheap and fast to build to maximize profits is his number one motivation. That's great for short run profits of a business, potentially bad for long run profits, and never anything but bad for the consumer. His only following should be from auto makers who don't give a damn about their customers.

His hard on for Tesla makes perfect sense.

 

[mtc416]

I guess you already seen this 😂

13:52

Not watching it now, but if it's the one I watched before, that clown gave up on finding the extremely obvious home button on the screen in half a second, tried to find a DCFC in the scheduled charging menu, and essentially said it's not laid out like Tesla so it's not understandable. Just to name a few.

He's a joke.

 

[mtc416]

What do you think of this one?

Saw that already too, not rewatching so just going from memory.

I feel for the guy. Many 21 buyers got shafted, and it's pretty inexcusable. Most of his big issues don't exist anymore and the 23 models are acceptable on software, pretty great on most other things. VW needs to get their shit together and fix this stuff, not now, but like last year. No arguments from me about that.

 

[mtc416]

I don't have to deal with charging on the regular basis. I have 2 free 50KW chargers in the area, 1 free 200KW, free L2 at work (if I get in early enough). Free L2 at my gym. So my car is perpetually charged for free. Most places I'm interested in driving to are within the ID4's range, and the ID4s range is longer than the ability of my kids to tolerate sitting still in the car etc.

Tesla has superior charging but I just wouldn't use an EV for a roadtrip if I'm on a tight schedule. Also, not funding Mr Tesla with my charges is a huge plus for me. I see on these forums and with people like Alex Gruberman that they start obsessing about their frustrations amplifying it to a level that is unbearable. We all have weaknesses like that, but an emotionally self-regulating adult would get rid of the source. AG uses it for clout, or as a vessel of his masochism. Neither options is inspiring.

Dang, where you live that you have access to all that free charging (that isn't like 24a level 2 destination charging)? I'm jealous, def not like that around here.

That said, I've yet to use any public charger with my 23 id4. Home charging covers all my needs other than road trips, which I'm not entirely sure I'm willing to do 500 mile-ish trips in any ev at this point. Maybe someday, but not at this point in life when I don't have lots of time to spare when the kiddos, wife, etc are off school/work. We gotta get there.

Agree on not finding Elon. If model Y was about 10-15k cheaper than id4, I still wouldn't buy it due to Elon. But if he wasn't in the picture, would have to consider that value proposition. Anything more than that and no thanks, I'll pay the extra for a much better id4 car.

I used to kinda like Alex, but that's changed. I really think he's taking this and using it as clickbait to make money at this point. I don't have any doubts he's got real problems with the car, but he's doing well enough he could have bailed by now, if griping about it wasn't so lucrative. I wouldn't be at all surprised too find out he drives a different car mostly and just holds onto this one too keep the clicks coming in.

Wish all the best for him, and glad he's advocating for others in his situation etc, but it has kinda turned me off to his content lately.

 

[mtc416]

Somebody is butt hurt 😢. I am waiting for the second generation ID4🤗

Meh, just prefer people who contribute meaningful content to the group.

 

[mtc416]

If I were this unhappy, I'd just get rid of the ID4 TBH.


On that accord, I'm super happy with the car. Since I turned set it to wired CarPlay only, I enjoy the stock sound system too. I have 2 panorama mirror stickers and I don't miss mirror dipping either. Given the level of comfort with the ambient lighting, Watching the rain from the panoramic roof made the space super cozy.

Which mirror stickers did you end up going with? Have a picture of it on the mirror? I think I want to do this too...

 

[mtc416]

Like you complaining about Elon and Tesla it would be like someone complaining about the 2nd generation ID4 using the current issues like the infotainment system. Careful what you wish for….

Funny how you keep going back to this ridiculous idea that what I'm complaining about is no longer true of Tesla. It's not like I'm gripping about a bad experience with the original model S, I'm taking about my personal experiences with last year's model Y (nothing changed substantially enough to matter this year to my knowledge), as well as things like the experience and testing data from professional detailers, body shops etc who have the experience and right equipment to test paint quality etc, and consistently find Tesla quality to be lacking with thin subpar paint etc.

You keep going back to nonsense like that because you got nothing to refute the actual substance. That's a tacit admission right there.

 

[mtc416]

Like you complaining about Elon and Tesla it would be like someone complaining about the 2nd generation ID4 using the current issues like the infotainment system. Careful what you wish for….

Oh, and I'm complaining about Tesla here because the post is about if you'd buy Tesla over id4 with the price cuts. Perfectly applicable to the topic at hand.

You want Tesla love and Elon butt kissing, I'm sure you'll find plenty more of it over on the Tesla forums.

 

[mtc416]

Never said I didn’t like the ID4. I said the Tesla is a better buy at the same price. Prior to the price cut, I am all in on the ID4. Reason I put in an order for a Pro S AWD. With the price MY is a better value over the ID4. Better range, performance, handling, tech, crash safety scores and charging infrastructure. What is not to like? Elon? Who cares about Elon. Not a good enough reason for me to purchase an inferior car.

Yet you refuse to engage with the long lists provided of non-Elon related "what is not to like?"

 

[mtc416]

Definitely not in Wyoming 🙃

I bought this mirror sticker:

Amazon.com

You an angle it down further. Worked out shockingly well. Better than diving mirrors to my shock.

Thanks I'll take a look. I like the ability to angle it down. I have convex mirrors like that on my truck, but they don't pivot, so have to be very convex to be helpful, which is more distorted than I prefer. Little sleeker look though.

 

[mtc416]

Where is all this info you claim from professional detailers (car washers 🤣), body shops, etc (use etc when you can’t make anything up🙄). You don’t own a Model Y and therefore have no actual experience. NO credibility. There are over 40 owners in my neighborhood driving Teslas. Some own 2. I don’t hear them complaining. Instead, they are quite complimentary. There is one ID4 owner and he is getting rid of it to buy a Model Y🤣. Sorry but the numbers don’t lie. The Bolt outsold the ID4 last year. Model Y sales crushed the ID4. Those are the facts not fake news. MY Safest car in Europe home to the ID4.

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/09/08/tesla-model-y-is-safest-car-in-europe-euro-ncap/amp/

Many, many examples. For one, the out of spec detailing YouTube channel. Most of the out of spec content is good. Oh, and that detailer and Kyle the main out of spec guy both have Teslas, so they're far from haters. Also, your condescension towards people who learn the science of color correction, different film and chemical protections, etc and then spend 5 days perfecting a car, is noted. Nice.

Not owning something that's clearly subpar is a lot smarter than buying something you can tell right away is subpar, just to be even more sure by spending more unnecessary uncomfortable time in said subpar car.

Lots of people have and like lots of things. Many of those things are junk. Lots of Teslas in my neighborhood too. Lots of terribly parked M3s especially. Has nothing to do with quality. Less of a vehicle that hasn't been out very long yet it's also extremely obvious outcome that means nothing. If someone has a 21 that still hasn't been updated, that's sucky and VW def dropped the ball there.

Can't compare sales numbers like that either, for a product line still getting ramped up, and during a supply shortage at that. Sales don't necessarily reflect quality anyway, but even if we going to try to use that standard, can't compare vehicles at different points in lifecycle.

 

[mtc416]

I ended up canceling my order…I get Tesla is not really in the car/dealership business, but they absolutely sucked when it came to trade in value and overall ease with delivery. Tesla offered me $77.7k on my 2022 BMW M4Cx but I was able to get $84k from the BMW dealer literally down the street from Tesla; however, Tesla wouldn’t allow for a courteous trade in order for me to claim the sales tax credit on that $84k. Moreover, Tesla wouldn’t allow me on the day of delivery, which ironically was scheduled for today, to inspect the M3P, and if everything looked good, have me quickly swing by the BMW dealer, sell them my car, and then return 45mins later. All of this coupled with missing options, rumored new Model 3 this year, and the douche bag Elon, made me say goodbye (for now). So ended up finding a hard to get 2023 BMW i4 M50. In all honesty, I’m too much of a BMW fanboi LOL

That's one heck of an upgrade! Congrats!

 

[mtc416]

Guys, maybe you missed my original post regarding my Tesla M3P order, but I mentioned the Tesla was to compliment our ID4, not replace the vdub. Similarly, the i4 is sharing the garage with our ID4 (wife’s car). I love our ID4, and it isn’t going anywhere!!

sorry for the double post

I got that. I'm congratulating you on a heck of an upgrade from meh m3 to the bimmer.

 

[mtc416]

Bro, this is exactly what I meant by projection. You're arguing with your own idea of what my stance is and not what I'm actually saying. You can scroll back to see what I said about Tesla being claimed to be one of the least reliable carmakers.

You are, of course, exactly right. But you're wasting your breath. Arguing with Tesla/Elon fanboys is like arguing with people that wear red hats and mindlessly worship orange fascists. Its utterly pointless, they're too far gone.