[VW TECHNICIAN]

I had a reservation for a Model Y in 2021 when I ordered the ID.4, and we picked the ID.4. Would do so again… the price delta between them is back to where it was in 2021. Only difference today is Tesla is also eligible for the tax credit, and has inflated EPA range from 270 to 330. But it’s still a 270 mile car, and the ID.4 is still a 240 mile car, real world.

On interstate Model Y Cd 0.23 will use less energy vs ID4 Cd 0.28.... and Model Y is using SiC inverter that is on average 4-6% more efficient at same load and it will have wider 3D map to stay in most efficient stage.
Better aerodynamic properties definitely helps electric vehicles stretch out what you can make between charging. But latest chip changes with Tesla have made chip power hungry less efficient when Auto Pilot is engaged almost 70% more energy is used on low 12V DC side vs ID.4.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

True, but it’s better aerodynamic shape makes it useless for us - our dog crate wouldn’t fit in the back; it doesn’t have roof rails for a bike rack. I’m not one who buys SUV to look cool or sit high; I buy because I need the boxy cargo area. My dream car is an EV the size of my Golf Sportwagen…

Edit: Also, just found this! Self-driving car computing not great for emissions: study

This make sense...Model Y under deliver in rear cargo space....

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

First I am in North America and it’s 2023, no Supercharger access here. Second Elon wants all other EV car makers to redesign their cars and adopt his pet connector? Elon can attempt something anatomically impossible.

With all due respect looking from engineering standpoint, Tesla plug is much better design.
People seems to apply sticker Elon on everything.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

On my trip in 2023 Model Y from east coast to Colorado i have accounted 23 ghost braking for no reason. And there is no way to use cruise control without AP. Cruise control in Tesla is far from relaxing. My next trip towards NV i will probably use my foot no cruise control.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Single tap CC Mph appears gray circle, double tap CC with auto steer AKA auto pilot Mph appears blue circle.

I have experienced this in single tap CC .... you can't disable emergency braking...at least i have not find the way to disable it.
And double tap i have tried for short duration of trip ( but i find myself more stressed out doing double work) instead just use my hands and steer vehicle.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Is the software updated or stripped? For a 2023 you might have the proximity sensors removed since it’s going all vision. Most likely the hardware or lack thereof hasn’t caught up to the software. This happened to new buyers when they removed the radar. I rented a Model S before from Enterprise and they disabled auto steering because of liability. On my Y I no longer get phantom braking in autopilot but do get phantom lane changes from FSD. 🤦‍♂️

There is no radar and no proximity sensors... and from some conversations from other Tesla owners even when they had proximity sensors, AP was always relying on cameras vision. Regarding 2022 Tesla S in December last year I have not experienced one single ghost braking ( i didn't use CC double tap then).

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

On my trip in 2023 Model Y from east coast to Colorado i have accounted 23 ghost braking for no reason. And there is no way to use cruise control without AP. Cruise control in Tesla is far from relaxing. My next trip towards NV i will probably use my foot no cruise control.

Some of ghost braking where happening when they patched cracks in road with black asphalt over concrete surfaces. Wipers in auto will come on sometimes for no reason ( i have stopped couple times to make sure there is no obstructions for front vision cameras). Some of Tesla owners that i have talked told me that latest FSD is much worse than before.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Some of ghost braking where happening when they patched cracks in road with black asphalt over concrete surfaces. Wipers in auto will come on sometimes for no reason ( i have stopped couple times to make sure there is no obstructions for front vision cameras). Some of Tesla owners that i have talked told me that latest FSD is much worse than before.

But at least this are problems that will be resolved in future updates. Tesla has axed radar and proximity sensors on 2023 Model Y. So far happy with rental ride.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

I own a late 2021 Model Y (almost 2022) with no radar. The front-collision avoidance system on my Model Y, using cameras only, is lightyears ahead of the ID.4 collision avoidance system. I own both vehicles, and the ID,4 front collision avoidance system is plain faulty and dangerous. In fact, for about two months we thought it was broken and even took our ID.4 to the dealer twice to look at it (they had no way of testing it). Even VW says that it doesn’t work in all cases. For example, it doesn’t work when approaching a fully stopped vehicle from behind (which renders it useless in my book), while the Tesla one is effective every time in my experience and is really competent.

My Model Y has ultrasound sensors, which were removed in 2022 Model Y. I see them activating on the Tesla screen, but I still haven’t figured out what they do and what they are for. These are not parking sensors. The parking sensors were not removed on 2022 or 2023 Model Y.

As for blind-spot monitoring, I agree the system that the ID.4 ised is superior to the Model Y’s one, but on my last trip when I failed to notice a car to my right on the Interstate and started changing lanes, the Model Y screamed at me with loud beeping and automatically put me back in my lane very forcefully. So, the blind-spot monitoring in the Model Y is inferior to that of the ID.4, but the Midel Y prevented an accident nonetheless. I don’t know if the ID.4 would have forcefully put me back in my lane in a case like that.

I’ve experienced phantom braking in the Model Y twice in one road trip, but I wouldn’t call it “braking”. I would call it “mild slowdown”. As soon as the Model Y figured there was nothing in front of it, it accelerated back to its preset speed. That was not nearly as traumatic as many make it seem.

There is no proximity sensors for parking ( they should come out with update that will use camera vision) for 2023 on front or back. I have tools to check for this type of sensors ( they are gone). I would agree with mild slowing down but it takes sometimes 5+ seconds if i don't take over. And this is something that can be dangerous with all seasons tires in winter conditions ( black ice or slick surfaces) for people who still want to use cruise control in this situations ( i would strongly recommend not to use cruise control in any adverse weather conditions).
Can you provide location of ultrasound sensors.... or screen picture of them and where they are located?
I'm very skeptical on Tesla camera vision only for cruise control.
ID.4 use radar and windshield camera for cruise control with low and high range proximity sensors when Cruise control is engaged with line assist mode.
Some luxury segment brands is using Camera, radar and infrared camera for cruise control that has much higher redundant abilities than camera vision alone.
And they have ability to make driver aware of wildlife or humans with infrared cameras in less than adequate cases where normal camera vision is not capable. I hope next Tesla 3 revision with additional sensors in head lights will have infrared camera sensors or additional set of cameras for blind-spot monitoring on intersections.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

My 2021 proximity sensors for parking is still working except for 1 from an accident popped inwards. Taking 3 months to get parts, by the time it arrives this will probably be disabled by software.

Tesla bets on cameras, drops ultrasonic sensors, pauses some features

For a range of driver assistance features, the vehicles will rely solely on the camera-based system that the company terms Tesla Vision.

www.greencarreports.com

Hardware 3 eliminates all sensors and unofficial 3.5 upgrades camera to HD resolution while hardware 4 will probably bring back radar but high resolution. Expect to see this in Cybertruck and Model 3 refresh with it. Cybertruck rumor has a camera underneath the bumper.

Tesla files to use a new radar and everyone is confused

Tesla has filed to use a new radar in its electric vehicles, and everyone is confused since Elon Musk has...

electrek.co

Bumper ( camera or infrared camera) on Bumper is for blind-spot monitoring on intersection ( where older software is not capable of doing this)... return of radar is most likely 2nd line of defense to prevent ghost braking ( that has been happening)
High resolution radar ( capable to see further ahead and help assist with vision cameras for 3D camera vision)... this is not secret sauce....this is going to be used in some premium EV vehicles from Germany. I still hope that they integrate infrared camera sensors as 3rd line of defense and greatly improve camera quality vision.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

I don’t know where they are located, but they look like yellow semicircles on the side of the car in the FSD screen visualization (I don’t have FSD, but the screen shows what the FAD computer interprets except it doesn’t do anything with this data unless FSD is purchased). I think these ultrasound sensors activate when I drive close to the curb or a wall in the side of the road.

Tesla models that have proximity sensors they are active at slow speeds and when obstructions are sensed. On my rental there are no signs of this sensors anywhere ( front, back or sides). I do have FSD enabled on this model ( not beta access). But i have not tried for extended periods of time.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Are you saying that the 2023 Model Y doesn’t have parking sensors ot did I misunderstand you? I have parking sensors in my 2021 Model Y. They look like any other parking sensors (round plastic inserts in the front and rear bumpers). My Model Y also shows the distance to the obstacle in inches on the central screen when I approach an obstacle when parking. This is similar to the ID.4 parking sensors, but the ID.4 doesn’t shoe the actual distance in inches; instead, it shows that the obstacle is getting closer to the bumper by activating red lines in front of the bumper in the infotainment screen.

Correct for 2023 axed probably for cost measure. But YouTube advocates are saying Elon is promising in future updates use of camera vision to supplement proximity sensors.
But hardware they have now is already limited with blind-spot monitoring at intersections.
I'm really interested how this type of magic is going to be fixed by software
Tesla windshield camera can't see right in front of bumper when obstruction is 7-9 inches above ground and you keep closing in.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

All Tesla Model Y and 3 built after October 2022 does not have the ultrasonic (proximity) sensors; at least in the US.

There is no cruise control radar it is axed probably for cost measure and promise that future updates will be redundant enough to use only camera vision. I'm personally puzzled with Tesla choice of only one hardware without redundant hardware and completely relying on camera vision.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

That’s terrible. Are we taking about the parking sensor that is shown on the photograph that I posted?

Picture you posted
Yes this is gone on my rental 2023 Model Y no proximity sensors.
Parking awareness is what should be coming in future updates ( delivering magic from camera vision)...but i would love to know how this windshield camera will know when it is in blind-spot of front bumper and measure correctly how far you are from hitting object in blind-spot that bumper iis preventing for camera vision to see... or is Tesla coming with surrounding awareness that is another level.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

The radar was removed in late 2021 Model Y. Mine doesn’t have a radar but it has ultrasonic sensors. The ultrasonic sensors were removed a year later - in the late 2022 Model Y.

No more ultrasonic sensors ( i call them proximity sensors).
So will future software be able to fix missing hardware with just software fix?
Is Tesla getting breakthrough in vision awareness?

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Wow. So, the 2023 Model Y has better suspension, better seats, and quieter cabin but lacks the parking proximity sensors! What the hell! Why? Those are probably less than $100 all combined, including wiring. That is truly insane!

It blows my mind..... I was going nuts trying to figure out if my engineering tools are malfunctioning...and after talking to couple Tesla owners that are more familiar with this brand they told me it is gone. Regarding cabin noise, it slightly better than Tesla 3 but still not optimized enough for interstate speeds. Who knows they may use noise canceling like what they are doing on more expensive models from Tesla. But I find it acceptable noise and suspension. And quick question, roof glass, is it double glazed for noise and insulation ( similar what they are using on front doors windows)?

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

I don’t know about the roof, but the windows in my 2021 are not as sound proof as on the late 2022. First came better sound insulation in windows some time in the summer of 2022, and then came better suspension and better seats in the 2023 Model Y.

I’m trying to see if I can trade in my very low miles late 2021 for a 2023 and break even after the $7500 tax credit. If I can’t, I will buy the aftermarket suspension with better springs and better shock absorbers to improve the ride quality in my 2021 Model Y.

You should try sell it private...trade in values are damaged by Tesla aggressive discounts and war against other EV manufacturers. Seats are good but not as good like Model S or X. And it is hard to make advice on Seats...this is personal to every person.
And i would not go with early 4680 battery packs if you are on market later when they push all vehicles to 4680. And at least coming back with proximity sensors and radar again. I would look for salvage yards 2023 and harvest suspension for your vehicle...much cheaper.... shocks i would go with bilstein brand. But if you really have patience...in less than 2 years there will be EV with 400+ miles range under 55k. And old packs that you have in your vehicle will hold better resale value than structural pack ( Tesla will supplement lower MSRP in future with additional extended warranty coverage ) because new packs will not be possible for repairs ( but they will have great value for Tesla). And there will be even better heat pumps coming by end of the year ( if my source is correct). So it is worth to chill out and wait for 2 years before buying new EV again. There is in the works new hardware for Tesla AP and additional sensors for resolving blind-spot monitoring at intersections.
And PMSRM motors for performance Model Y will likely be offered with carbon fiber sleeve for higher rotor speeds and more torque ( because of tighter tolerances).
This is motor that is used in Tesla S Plaid on front axle. From my software modeling after I plugged in some values... PMSRM electric motor with carbon fiber sleeve will be more efficient and more powerful ( no difference between long range and performance Model Y). If they integrate half shaft disconnects this can easily improve efficiency even more.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

I guess I'm lucky using my foot to drive..... just watching this crash in the tunnel.....I can’t imagine how Tesla owner was feeling and all other vehicles colliding behind. On my trip 1800 miles long from New York NY to Denver Colorado CO .... while I was using on 2023 Model Y AP i have experienced 23 ghost braking that i had to take over and hit accelerator pedal. After that my trip from Denver CO to Las Vegas NV was entirely with my foot...no cruise control....whatever was in last software update there is something way wrong with camera vision.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

It’s still under investigation, but his lawyer claims it was on FSD but the media seems to go back and fourth with FSD and self driving (auto pilot?). Usually they don’t know the difference between FSD Beta and 4 year old soon discontinued auto pilot. They have declined to state whether to sue Tesla but we know lawyers can sniff deep pockets to settle. Rumor there’s a flashing red light in the tunnel which I’m not sure how to react in that situation as a human driver. Perhaps warning to stop? Also only auto pilot works in freeways and FSD Beta does not until Version 11 unified, promised this week by Elon.

This is still drivers liability....
I feel sorry for making this statement.
And from my personal opinion no person should be allowed on any legal road to operate in Beta mode without clearly being visible by some type of signs on vehicle or flashing lights when operating in Beta mode.
I have read fine print for Tesla AP and it is drivers responsibility. This type of accidents and people who have died in this type of crashes using AP....should awake government policy makers to make rules how this type of technology is going to be used in future on legal roads and have restrictions on how long it can be used in 24 hours. People who sign up for this Beta mode should pass orientation on how to use this untested technology and have all risks explained to them. Each vehicle that is enabled for Beta mode should have assigned person on duty from Tesla support. If all people have read fine print...they would figure out quickly that all malfunctions on software side will make driver liable for accident..... many will think twice before signing up. Vehicle insurance companies will get involved in this very soon. If owner of Tesla is Beta tester....Tesla should provide liability protection and life insurance in case of Beta tester death and accident that will be resolved later who to blame ( Tesla or Beta Tester).
There is a reason why manufacturers have special plates on vehicles when doing testing and driving on legal roads....
This should be enforced on all manufacturers not just Tesla...Tesla is pioneering unknown technology that eventually will work as promised....but in this process all people should be protected and aware of specific vehicles that are used for Beta testing to other drivers that they should take greater care when driving around this vehicles.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Guys, maybe you missed my original post regarding my Tesla M3P order, but I mentioned the Tesla was to compliment our ID4, not replace the vdub. Similarly, the i4 is sharing the garage with our ID4 (wife’s car). I love our ID4, and it isn’t going anywhere!!

sorry for the double post

At the time of delivery you still have time to inspect and walk away from vehicle if you are not satisfied...