[tacomambo]

hahaha. And as I expected, you just went on a rant without actually looking at the posts ( #357 and #360) you're ranting about. I'm done here.

kind of silly when other maker have worse reliability issues with aging car with expensive repair bills like vw, audi, bmw, mb, ford, gm.. but lets not chatise those company because their ceo isn't head honcho of twitter...

might want to brush on update on what is reliable and what isn't instead of taking loudmouth anecdotes from online reddit/forums:

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/consumer-reports-these-are-the-least-reliable-cars/

and fyi, im not tesla fanboy, if i was i would have a my instead of an id4. and i would never own an ice vw because they're trash cars period. hope that clarifies your delussional assumption of me being a tesla fanboy

 

[mtc416]

This is to slow down the increase demand that cannot meet realistic production time, however will probably cause the opposite effects and benefit selling used Model Y.

No, it's because IRS guidance just changed and MY now qualifies as SUV, so Elon took half a second to decide to start back up on screwing over his buyers and the taxpayer to make insane profits on his overhyped vehicle.

 

[mtc416]

Who’s hyping? I would feel screwed if a portion of my money went to paying for ads and the Royal Piechs family caviar and yachts.

Infographic: Tesla: Innovation Over Advertising?

This chart shows expenditure on advertising/research and development per car sold in 2020 of selected automotive companies.

www.statista.com

European business' most powerful families

Porsche

www.theguardian.com

Ferdinand Piëch Porsche Pioneer & Billionaire

Porsche Pioneer & Billionaire Ferdinand Piëch 1937-2019 Ferdinand Piëch was the grandson of Ferdinand Porsche wh...

www.rolexmagazine.com

Hate to break it to you, but as you've touted many times, you have one of those vehicles in your garage... So I guess you feel screwed?

You can stop with the whataboutism... Nobody here worships at the feet of VW, Piech, etc. like Tesla/Elon fans do. Even if they did, it would in zero way change the fact that Elon is screwing the crap out of his customers. It's an irrelevant and childish whatabout argument that you feel compelled to make every 5 posts, to the point that you alone have brought up that family more than 1/3 of all mentions in this entire forum. Give it a rest.

Some of us here want to have a more mature discussion that doesn't revolve around dumb logical fallacies.

 

[TidingSStables]

Anyhow going back to the thread, I own both and tell the truth. 😉 The fanboys are just as bad as the antis, having both vehicles is the only way to know.

 

[truthseeker]

Anyhow going back to the thread, I own both and tell the truth. 😉 The fanboys are just as bad as the antis, having both vehicles is the only way to know.

I own both, and I wholeheartedly agree. The only way to understand the benefits and the downsides of both is to have them both - or at least to drive them in various driving conditions many times to be able to compare them.

IMO, they are both great vehicles, each with its own strengths and weaknesses. One is better for around-town driving, while the other is better on road trips.

 

[wildpitcher]

With all due respect looking from engineering standpoint, Tesla plug is much better design.
People seems to apply sticker Elon on everything.

That is likely true and I respect your view on that. I would dare to say, though, that the ID.4 is plenty good enough for most American car buyers and actually better from the standpoint of previous auto experiences transferring over to EV. At this point, the Pro S and Model Y are about a push on price, but the Pro model is about $6K less expensive.

There are people that will not own a Tesla based on the minimalist cockpit design and the overreliance on the center screen. My wife, for example, is one of those people. I am not fond of the design concepts, either, but I might be able to adapt if I had to. But with the ID.4 I don't have to.

Dave

 

[mtc416]

Anyhow going back to the thread, I own both and tell the truth. 😉 The fanboys are just as bad as the antis, having both vehicles is the only way to know.

Maybe some of you are just way too slow to figure things out and have to spend 60k plus to form an opinion... But that's not the case for many of us.

I have owned the id4 for a while now. I test drove 2 of them (rwd 22 and AWD 23) before buying, as well as a decent amount of research on all EVs in the market that met my needs (including MY). Having owned the id4 for a while, I can say that nothing has substantially changed from my impressions from the research and test drives. A few little things... The delay on wiper fluid is a little annoying, didn't do that on test drives, a few phantom resets of settings that I had heard about but not experienced are not ideal but I knew about them ahead of time, things like that. Pretty much I got exactly what I expected.

There's no way in hell that spending crazy money on a cheaply made MY and driving it more is going to make me appreciate it's terrible ride quality, uncomfortable seats, bad body gaps, thin cheap paint, higher insurance rates, lack of basics like glove box buttons or blind spot indicators where they belong or a drive mode or a rear wiper, or a design aesthetic that is atrocious both inside and out, or repair bills of broken door handles, hinges, etc, or subpar travel assist (unless you spend 6k more to make it decent), or any number of other crappy things about the car.

That doesn't make me dishonest, it makes me able to see reality and not have to justify spending double what a junky car is worth on forums with logical fallacies like a child.

 

[mtc416]

I own both, and I wholeheartedly agree. The only way to understand the benefits and the downsides of both is to have them both - or at least to drive them in various driving conditions many times to be able to compare them.

IMO, they are both great vehicles, each with its own strengths and weaknesses. One is better for around-town driving, while the other is better on road trips.

See my above comment for some of this.

Yes, we all agree that Tesla has a better infrastructure at this point for long trips... If you can survive the terrible ride quality and seats for that long, it's going to make road tripping more convenient, assuming you use a BEV for that. I hope to my stance that no BEV is good for frequent road tripping today, and you're better off with a phev if that's your lifestyle. For most people 99% of the time, it's pretty irrelevant, so better to get the car that's better for everyday use. You can always rent a car, it have a secondary phev etc car, for the occasional trip.

 

[TidingSStables]

Maybe some of you are just way too slow to figure things out and have to spend 60k plus to form an opinion... But that's not the case for many of us.

I have owned the id4 for a while now. I test drove 2 of them (rwd 22 and AWD 23) before buying, as well as a decent amount of research on all EVs in the market that met my needs (including MY). Having owned the id4 for a while, I can say that nothing has substantially changed from my impressions from the research and test drives. A few little things... The delay on wiper fluid is a little annoying, didn't do that on test drives, a few phantom resets of settings that I had heard about but not experienced are not ideal but I knew about them ahead of time, things like that. Pretty much I got exactly what I expected.

There's no way in hell that spending crazy money on a cheaply made MY and driving it more is going to make me appreciate it's terrible ride quality, uncomfortable seats, bad body gaps, thin cheap paint, higher insurance rates, lack of basics like glove box buttons or blind spot indicators where they belong or a drive mode or a rear wiper, or a design aesthetic that is atrocious both inside and out, or repair bills of broken door handles, hinges, etc, or subpar travel assist (unless you spend 6k more to make it decent), or any number of other crappy things about the car.

That doesn't make me dishonest, it makes me able to see reality and not have to justify spending double what a junky car is worth on forums with logical fallacies like a child.

Research behind the keyboard. 🤣

For those reading and on the fence.

I’m sure you can conjure up reasons to hate Munro and have done more research and have more credibility. 😂

 

[TidingSStables]

13:19
9 out of 10 taxicab driver and mtc416 agree. 😂

I hope to my stance that no BEV is good for frequent road tripping today, and you're better off with a phev if that's your lifestyle. For most people 99% of the time, it's pretty irrelevant, so better to get the car that's better for everyday use. You can always rent a car, it have a secondary phev etc car, for the occasional trip.

We know what cars and EV Chargers are great for road tripping with a network across the US, China, Europe and Canada and that’s not Toyota. 😂

 

[mtc416]

Research behind the keyboard. 🤣

For those reading and on the fence.

I’m sure you can conjure up reasons to hate Munro and have done more research and have more credibility. 😂

Monroe cares about one thing first and foremost... Cheapening out a car to make it faster and cheaper to produce. Sorry, there's a place for that, but it doesn't inspire confidence that you're getting a high quality car for your money. His obsession with eliminating fasteners, making things out of single pieces of cast aluminum or plastic, etc are great for short term manufacturer's profits, not so much for consumers. So yeah, he's credible, but his entire perspective is opposite what smart consumers should care about.

 

[mtc416]

13:19
9 out of 10 taxicab driver and mtc416 agree. 😂

We know what cars and EV Chargers are great for road tripping with a network across the US, China, Europe and Canada and that’s not Toyota. 😂

I watched this video ages ago and it solidified to me how little I care what he thinks. He spent like 5 mins trying to find a charging station in the saved charger menu, and couldn't figure out a very simple home button.

He gave up on the whole system because it wasn't exactly what he's used to in Tesla. That's first class idiotic. So nope, don't give a damn what he thinks anymore. He has so much potential, but squanders it with stupid takes like this.

Some people are just common sense morons and should stick with their comfortable cars, and not try to influence others because they can't figure out a home button that's virtually identical to every iPad or android system out there. If you were trying to prove how uncredible he is in anything but making cars cheaply, you picked a good video to do it.

 

[Pascal]

Tesla bumps up Model Y price after EV tax credit adjustment

The Model Y Long Range costs $1,500 more.

www.theverge.com

 

[TidingSStables]

I watched this video ages ago and it solidified to me how little I care what he thinks. He spent like 5 mins trying to find a charging station in the saved charger menu, and couldn't figure out a very simple home button.

He gave up on the whole system because it wasn't exactly what he's used to in Tesla. That's first class idiotic. So nope, don't give a damn what he thinks anymore. He has so much potential, but squanders it with stupid takes like this.

Some people are just common sense morons and should stick with their comfortable cars, and not try to influence others because they can't figure out a home button that's virtually identical to every iPad or android system out there. If you were trying to prove how uncredible he is in anything but making cars cheaply, you picked a good video to do it.

SANDY MUNRO: The Tesla Advantage (Price Cuts & Build Quality)

Let's chat with the Tear Down Titan aka Sandy Munro from Munro Live. We will be discussing the recent Price Drops from Tesla and their margin advantage along...

www.youtube.com

 

[tacomambo]

Monroe cares about one thing first and foremost... Cheapening out a car to make it faster and cheaper to produce. Sorry, there's a place for that, but it doesn't inspire confidence that you're getting a high quality car for your money. His obsession with eliminating fasteners, making things out of single pieces of cast aluminum or plastic, etc are great for short term manufacturer's profits, not so much for consumers. So yeah, he's credible, but his entire perspective is opposite what smart consumers should care about.

having more complexes to cars makes it more costly for repairs.. dont forget that.. simplifying the manufacturing process does not equate to poor quality. it just make it more efficient.. poor quality cars dont protect passenger falling off a cliff or getting tbone and walking away.

anti elon camp whine and moan about expensive repairs but yet praises and worship high quality build with more fasteners and screws

so what is the definition of high quality and low cost aging repair reliability?

 

[p__x]

Tesla bumps up Model Y price after EV tax credit adjustment

The Model Y Long Range costs $1,500 more.

www.theverge.com

100% expected. Tesla prices will be raised in perpetuity (like a year and a half ago), until Tesla finds the sweet spot profit and competitive edge. This was predictable.

I watched this video ages ago and it solidified to me how little I care what he thinks. He spent like 5 mins trying to find a charging station in the saved charger menu, and couldn't figure out a very simple home button.

He gave up on the whole system because it wasn't exactly what he's used to in Tesla. That's first class idiotic. So nope, don't give a damn what he thinks anymore. He has so much potential, but squanders it with stupid takes like this.

Some people are just common sense morons and should stick with their comfortable cars, and not try to influence others because they can't figure out a home button that's virtually identical to every iPad or android system out there. If you were trying to prove how uncredible he is in anything but making cars cheaply, you picked a good video to do it.

That Munro video was simply lame. It's pointless to even get into details about how lame it was.

 

[truthseeker]

Research behind the keyboard. 🤣

For those reading and on the fence.

I’m sure you can conjure up reasons to hate Munro and have done more research and have more credibility. 😂

I've never watched Sandy Munro before, even though I've heard of him. The guy is super annoying and is too old to be able to figure out a car. He couldn't figure out he was in a charging screen and not in the navigation screen. He never figured out how to get out of the charging screen. He pressed the Parking Menu button and expected that to be a Menu button.

I'm far from claiming that the ID.4 interface is extremely intuitive. It is not. But, it's not any worse than most of ICEVs. If one doesn't know how to navigate a regular infotainment, one has no business driving a car newer than 15 years old. How did his people allow Sandy publish this crap of a video - that I don't know. He didn't embarrass VW here. He embarrassed himself, demonstrating that the technological age had passed him by a long time ago.

As for the ID.4 being for old people or taxi drivers, I only partly agree. I think the RWD ID.4 is for sure a perfect taxi cab or ride-share vehicle, but I also think that the AWD ID.4 is a great around-town vehicle for a small family. Although, I agree, that young people without kids would probably not be interested in the ID.4. I think the ID.4 is for middle-aged people with small families. However, a lot of older people love traveling in the ID.4 from what I can tell both by meeting them at EA stations all over my part of the country and also by reading their posts on here. Personally, I'm not old enough to love traveling in the ID.4 - it takes too long for my liking, but I guess I'm old enough to consider it to be a great daily driver because of how solid it feels and drives. I'm not too happy about the software either, but it's not a dumpster fire that Sandy presents it to be.

As far as Sandy not being able to figure out how to change from D mode to B mode to be able to experience regeneration, that just tells you that nothing that comes out of Sandy should be paid any attention to. I'm glad I had never watched his videos before today because after watching these videos, I can't rely on anything this dude says, as he is plain too old at this point to be able to give an opinion on a modern car. Why he loves the Model Y - I have no idea. Perhaps there is some ulterior motive behind it because the Model Y - while being a fine vehicle - is not that much better than the ID.4, and no one in their right mind could have loved the ride quality in the Model Y - especially before the 2023 model year.

Sandy didn't like the solid drive of the ID.4, saying that it's the feel that taxi drivers love. I've never driven a taxi cab or a ride share, but I love this feel in an SUV. My previous SUVs were all upper trim V6 Kia Sorentos, and they all had the same exact feel. I never owned any other SUVs besides Sorentos and now ID.4 and Model Y, but I rented a bunch of other SUVs over the years. Sorentos to me had a special feel that I loved, which is the same feel that the ID.4 has - a solid, heavy, and competent vehicle that is planted on the road and can't be blown off a lane at highway speeds by a wind gust. Every time I change from the Model Y to the ID.4, I can immediately tell the difference in the way the two vehicles drive. The ID.4 feels very heavy - perhaps overly heavy for many people's liking. The AWD ID.4 is very nimble, though. The RWD ID.4 felt too anemic to me when I test drove it. The feeling of a heavy vehicle which is also not fast enough to accelerate may create this negative feeling in a person that the vehicle is just too slow. Sandy was driving a First Edition, which is a RWD ID.4 Of course, even the RWD ID.4 is not slower than most ICE SUVs, but because it feels so heavy, it does create an impression of being too slow. However, the AWD ID.4 cures this impression very effectively, as it accelerates fast enough (at least for my liking) without feeling reckless like my Model Y does. So, it's just the matter of what one likes. I like not having to feel every road imperfection in my gut, and the ID.4 excels at canceling most of the road imperfections penetrating the cabin. It is a perfect road-tripping vehicle when it comes to the ride quality. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the range or the charging curve to be a perfect road tripper. But even for around-town chores and for commuting, this solid ride-quality feel is something that I personally appreciate quite a bit, and I would be the first one to admit that the Model Y absolutely has none of these ride qualities.

 

[p__x]

As for the ID.4 being for old people or taxi drivers, I only partly agree. I think the RWD ID.4 is for sure a perfect taxi cab or ride-share vehicle, but I also think that the AWD ID.4 is a great around-town vehicle for a small family. Although, I agree, that young people without kids would probably not be interested in the ID.4. I think the ID.4 is for middle-aged people with small families. However, a lot of older people love traveling in the ID.4 from what I can tell both by meeting them at EA stations all over my part of the country and also by reading their posts on here. Personally, I'm not old enough to love traveling in the ID.4 - it takes too long for my liking, but I guess I'm old enough to consider it to be a great daily driver because of how solid it feels and drives. I'm not too happy about the software either, but it's not a dumpster fire that Sandy presents it to be.

Bingo. Middle-aged people with small families are the primary group to buy SUVs anyway. I've always considered the SUV form factor unjustifiably wasteful until my second kid was born.

 

[wildpitcher]

Bingo. Middle-aged people with small families are the primary group to buy SUVs anyway. I've always considered the SUV form factor unjustifiably wasteful until my second kid was born.

It's also not a bad form factor for retired couples that like to pack up the car and road trip.

Dave

 

[Atlant]

As far as Sandy not being able to figure out how to change from D mode to B mode to be able to experience regeneration, that just tells you that nothing that comes out of Sandy should be paid any attention to. I'm glad I had never watched his videos before today because after watching these videos, I can't rely on anything this dude says, as he is plain too old at this point to be able to give an opinion on a modern car. Why he loves the Model Y - I have no idea. Perhaps there is some ulterior motive behind it because the Model Y - while being a fine vehicle - is not that much better than the ID.4, and no one in their right mind could have loved the ride quality in the Model Y - especially before the 2023 model year.

That's funny. I think the “Gear Shift” of the ID.4 is one of the WORST pieces of human engineering in the entire car and I routinely end up in “D” when I want to be in “B” (owing to the fact that the car remembers which mode it was last in so shifting from Neutral to Forward doesn't always land you in the same spot, even though you rolled the control two clicks forward).

It should have just been a rotary knob that shifted among R, N, D, and B and had mechanical stops at the end of travel but as with so much on the ID.4, the designers instead decided to be “clever” and “innovative”.