Tesla Tap Mini anyone?

SunWizard

· #2 · Mar 15, 2021 (Edited)

Huey52 said:
This to adapt to Tesla L2 Destination EVSE's at hotels, etc., but of course Not Superchargers which are proprietary.

Anyone considering same for longer trips where there aren't ChargePoints, etc?

TeslaTap MINI 40 AMP

www.umc-j1772.com

Yep I want one since there are like 20,000 tesla destination chargers that opens up. That device and others like it are demonstrated in this:
Video: How To Charge The Volkswagen ID.4: Everything You Need To Know

I think I prefer this other model thats $60 cheaper, since I like the way it angles 90 and hangs in the photos it may be less likely to interfere with the power door on some models:
teslaTap 40

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corfam

· #3 · Mar 15, 2021 (Edited)

In Tom's review that @SunWizard listed, Tom said you should get an adapter that is rated to at least 50 amps as a precautionary measure. I guess the concern is that some destination chargers will put out more than 40 amps, so he had recommended this version of the TeslaTap Mini, that is actually rated to 60 amps:

TeslaTap MINI 60 AMP

www.umc-j1772.com

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Wimbledon

· #4 · Mar 15, 2021

I keep a Tesla Tap in my EV just in case I need to charge and the only option available is a Tesla destination charger. It's nice to have handy as many hotels only have a Tesla destination charger.

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SunWizard

· #5 · Mar 15, 2021

corfam said:
In Tom's review that @SunWizard listed Tom said you should get an adapter that is rated to at least 50 amps as a precautionary measure. I guess the concern is that some destination chargers will put out more than 40 amps. So he had recommended this version of the TeslaTap Mini, that is actually rated to 60 amps:

TeslaTap MINI 60 AMP

www.umc-j1772.com

Good point, since the ID.4 can draw 48 amps! (11kw)

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Kitt

· #6 · Mar 15, 2021

Can someone explain why Tesla destination chargers can provide 11kW and all L2 chargers I have seen in the US (mostly from ChargePoint) only output 7.6kW?

In Europe L2 chargers provide 11kW (like Tesla) or even 22kW. The 11kW on Tesla destination chargers alone makes a TeslaTap a great investment, but why can't non-Tesla L2 chargers provide 11kW like in Europe?

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SunWizard

· #7 · Mar 15, 2021

Kitt said:
Can someone explain why Tesla destination chargers can provide 11kW and all L2 chargers I have seen in the US (mostly from ChargePoint) only output 7.6kW?

In Europe L2 chargers provide 11kW (like Tesla) or even 22kW. The 11kW on Tesla destination chargers alone makes a TeslaTap a great investment, but why can't non-Tesla L2 chargers provide 11kW like in Europe?

Tesla has lots of money to invest in their nice charging network. The bigger the amp, the more expensive the wiring and the hardware. Copper prices are soaring lately too. There are thousands of new chargers coming really soon, and they will be faster since its only recently where other cars can handle 48A/240V charging 11kw, and DCFC-125kw even more recent demand since the Leaf and Bolt can't handle that much.

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Kitt

· #8 · Mar 15, 2021

SunWizard said:
Tesla has lots of money to invest in their nice charging network. The bigger the amp, the more expensive the wiring and the hardware. Copper prices are soaring lately too. There are thousands of new chargers coming really soon, and they will be faster since its only recently where other cars can handle 48A/240V charging 11kw, and DCFC-125kw even more recent demand since the Leaf and Bolt can't handle that much.

That can't be correct. Cars in Europe were able to charge 11kW for years. And if Chargepoint is able to place (crappy) DC fast chargers, it's can't be the cost of wiring either, can it? Could be that in Europe they three phase vs 1 phase in the US? Would that make a difference somehow (that still wouldn't explain why Tesla uses 11kW)

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ericy

· #9 · Mar 15, 2021

Kitt said:
That can't be correct. Cars in Europe were able to charge 11kW for years. And if Chargepoint is able to place (crappy) DC fast chargers, it's can't be the cost of wiring either, can it? Could be that in Europe they three phase vs 1 phase in the US? Would that make a difference somehow (that still wouldn't explain why Tesla uses 11kW)

Europe uses 3-phase electricity, so you don't need such thick wires for 11kW. I believe it is just a 20A circuit if you have 3 hot wires.

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DanM

· #10 · Mar 15, 2021

ericy said:
Europe uses 3-phase electricity, so you don't need such thick wires for 11kW. I believe it is just a 20A circuit if you have 3 hot wires.

For the US, single phase math is straightforward:
240 volts × 48 amps = 11,520 watts = 11.5 kW

For the EU, three phase math to get to ~11 kW is something like this. It can be calculated in two more or less equivalent ways:
400 volts (phase to phase) × 16 amps x √3 = 11,085 watts = 11 kW
230 volts (phase to neutral) × 16 amps x 3 = 11,040 watts = 11 kW

Thus, you really only need the equivalent of 10 or 12 gauge wires to get to 11 kW in Europe, rather than 6 gauge wires needed here in the US with single phase.

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egsell

· #11 · Mar 15, 2021

I think that Tesla had 11kW because they were hardwiring their home infrastructure, it's the only way to get to 11kW in the US for now. slap a plug on there and you are immediately at 9.6 or lower.

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ChristophW

· #12 · Mar 16, 2021

I wonder if the hardwire option is only temporary? There is a NEMA 14-60 outlet type, and it is commercially available. Just google it.

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ericy

· #13 · Mar 16, 2021

ChristophW said:
I wonder if the hardwire option is only temporary? There is a NEMA 14-60 outlet type, and it is commercially available. Just google it.

I thought I saw something in the latest NEC code that said something about requiring hardwired EVSE under some circimstances.

625.42 Rating.

Some manufacturers have EV chargers that can be adjusted to a lower setting to accommodate limited remaining load capabilities of an electric service.

www.electricallicenserenewal.com

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stealthg

· #14 · Mar 16, 2021

Huey52 said:
This to adapt to Tesla L2 Destination EVSE's at hotels, etc., but of course Not Superchargers which are proprietary.

Anyone considering same for longer trips where there aren't ChargePoints, etc?

TeslaTap MINI 40 AMP

www.umc-j1772.com

I'm definitely getting one. I've stayed in several hotels in the past that had Destination EVSE's.

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TT97

· #15 · Mar 16, 2021 (Edited)

Kitt said:
Can someone explain why Tesla destination chargers can provide 11kW and all L2 chargers I have seen in the US (mostly from ChargePoint) only output 7.6kW?

In Europe L2 chargers provide 11kW (like Tesla) or even 22kW. The 11kW on Tesla destination chargers alone makes a TeslaTap a great investment, but why can't non-Tesla L2 chargers provide 11kW like in Europe?

There are some EVSE that can provide 48A (11.5kW) but they need to be hardwired. The most a plug-in (NEMA 14-50 or 6-50) can be is 40A or 9.6kw. [edit: Apparently there is a NEMA 14-60 but can't find any EVSE using that.] I have the Gen 2 Tesla EVSE (HPWC) that can actually charge to 19.2kw (80A) but none of Tesla's current cars can charge at that level (you would also need to dedicate 100A circuit for the unit which is 50% of a typical newer house capacity). As the unit is designed for up to 80A, the connection cord is ridiculously thick and heavy - it's really overkill.

TeslaTap (UMC-J1772 Store) also sells HPWC units converted for J1772. I am considering buying one for the ID.4 as I can daisy chain it with my current unit.

Unless you are driving more than 200 miles every day (or have a very short low-peak window), there is no need for more than 9.6kW (or even 7.6kW).

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Kitt

· #16 · Mar 16, 2021

TT97 said:
Unless you are driving more than 200 miles every day (or have a very short low-peak window), there is no need for more than 9.6kW (or even 7.6kW).

I agree for home use, but for curbside EV charging a 50% increase could be very useful. I guess the solution is to bring the TeslaTap and use a Tesla destination charger whenever possible is doable as well. It's all theory anyway, since curbside L2 EV chargers are extremely rare in the US.

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TT97

· #17 · Mar 16, 2021

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Kitt said:
I agree for home use, but for curbside EV charging a 50% increase could be very useful. I guess the solution is to bring the TeslaTap and use a Tesla destination charger whenever possible is doable as well. It's all theory anyway, since curbside L2 EV chargers are extremely rare in the US.

L2 chargers are more for convenience and as a perk. At a hotel, you will likely be there all night so speed isn't as much of a concern. The issue is, until recently, Tesla was the only vehicles that really had faster than 7.6 kW charging and there was not much incentive for providers to spend the cost to supply faster service.

As far as curbside chargers, I guess it depends where you live. These are all over in L.A.:

(Just bring a step ladder with you to use it.)

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egsell

· #18 · Mar 16, 2021

Seriously, how high off the ground is that? I guess I’ve missed those.

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Kitt

· #19 · Mar 16, 2021

TT97 said:
L2 chargers are more for convenience and as a perk.

lol, that's the most ridiculous place for a charger I've ever seen.

The number of L2 chargers in LA or Bay Area is extremely low though. I've seen L2 chargers in Europe on every street corner and you see people just plug their cars in whenever they have a chance. It's super easy for people who can't charge at home but also those who can. It completely changes the way people use EVs (and hence the EV sales are many times those of the US or even California). From what I saw in Europe four years ago, they were 5 to 10 years ahead of us. And the difference has probably grown since then. It's embarrassing, really.

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TT97

· #20 · Mar 16, 2021

Kitt said:
lol, that's the most ridiculous place for a charger I've ever seen.

The number of L2 chargers in LA or Bay Area is extremely low though. I've seen L2 chargers in Europe on every street corner and you see people just plug their cars in whenever they have a chance. It's super easy for people who can't charge at home but also those who can. It completely changes the way people use EVs (and hence the EV sales are many times those of the US or even California). From what I saw in Europe four years ago, they were 5 to 10 years ahead of us. And the difference has probably grown since then. It's embarrassing, really.

In theory, with the app, when you activate the charge, the cord will come down so you can reach it. The app wanted a $25 initial deposit to start so I never tried it. It seems common for issues with the cord coming down, it is at about 9' off the ground so you either need to be well over 6' tall to be able to reach it or have your kid on your shoulders to grab it.

There are definitely considerably less L2 chargers in the US than (Northern) Europe. The largest culprit is the push of EVs in Europe vs the anti-clean air policies of the previous administration here. From a personal perspective, I like the $7,500 tax credit (and state credits/rebates) but I do feel the government can improve EV adoption more by investing the funds into charging infrastructure. Having many more street and apartment options for charging will make people without houses more comfortable to buy an EV. (Even without the $7,500, the total cost of ownership for EVs is quickly approaching comparable ICE vehicles assuming the charging is available).

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