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I am typically not an early adopter. I would rather wait until the technology gets proven and polished and the price comes down. Now I am older, and my time frame is shortening. I have usually kept my vehicle for quite a while, driving ownership cost/time to a low level, until maintenance costs threaten. Our current driver is a 2012 Tiguan 4-Motion bought new. My main complaint is lack of low-end torque, with everything else good or better. I have enjoyed being a VW owner since 1967, including still our 1991 single owner Euro delivery Westy. We believe in climate change and want to have our next vehicle reflect that. I have been turned off by Tesla’s reports of customer service problems, so another People’s Car seemed like a match with the Tiguan like VW ID.4 AWD.

It causes pause when I realize that the price for a ID.4 AWD is almost exactly double what we paid for our 2012 Tiguan, but what really causes me pause is obsolescence, particularly battery technologies and production scale and now also public policy with the result of significant cost reductions soon.

The technical media is filled with articles about new battery technologies and materials. I can see the cost curve in the dropping rapidly section of the curve. I see the production capacity curve rapidly climbing with new and planned facilities everywhere. I see public policy and contemplated laws supporting EV production and purchase expanding at this moment. I see VW moving ID.4 production to the US with impacts on customer costs and benefits.

So, while we sit and hold our order for a ID.4 AWD, I am watching carefully at what is being promised and delivered in EVs. GM’s recent announcement for a modest yet real advancement in batteries is direction I see this going.

How about you?
 

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ID.4 FE GW
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I don't understand the issue here.

Buy a car if it meets your requirements, and do not buy it if it does not.
Spend some time defining your requirements and this will pay off.
 

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Proud FE owner
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There is no obsolescence in automobiles. Maybe less efficiently or comfortably, but as long as there are roads, they will always serve their intended purpose. An operable Model-T can still transit the same roads as a modern car.
 

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I am typically not an early adopter. I would rather wait until the technology gets proven and polished and the price comes down. Now I am older, and my time frame is shortening. I have usually kept my vehicle for quite a while, driving ownership cost/time to a low level, until maintenance costs threaten. Our current driver is a 2012 Tiguan 4-Motion bought new. My main complaint is lack of low-end torque, with everything else good or better. I have enjoyed being a VW owner since 1967, including still our 1991 single owner Euro delivery Westy. We believe in climate change and want to have our next vehicle reflect that. I have been turned off by Tesla’s reports of customer service problems, so another People’s Car seemed like a match with the Tiguan like VW ID.4 AWD.

It causes pause when I realize that the price for a ID.4 AWD is almost exactly double what we paid for our 2012 Tiguan, but what really causes me pause is obsolescence, particularly battery technologies and production scale and now also public policy with the result of significant cost reductions soon.

The technical media is filled with articles about new battery technologies and materials. I can see the cost curve in the dropping rapidly section of the curve. I see the production capacity curve rapidly climbing with new and planned facilities everywhere. I see public policy and contemplated laws supporting EV production and purchase expanding at this moment. I see VW moving ID.4 production to the US with impacts on customer costs and benefits.

So, while we sit and hold our order for a ID.4 AWD, I am watching carefully at what is being promised and delivered in EVs. GM’s recent announcement for a modest yet real advancement in batteries is direction I see this going.

How about you?
I bought my blue FE on the hope it truly would be a limited edition (2500?).
Anyone have a number of FEs produced and shipped to NA? How would you find that out?
 

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If the ID.4 is what you want, and you can afford it, the time to make a change for the greatest impact on the environment is now.

And, I hope it's not insensitive, but you mentioned your "time frame is shortening". If that's also a concern of yours, then it becomes even more important to make an impact sooner. The predictions about better batteries, increased production/reduced costs, or even federal credits are all just guesses and may not come to fruition in the timeline you expect. There are a lot of potentially exciting developments in labs that won't be affordable in production any time soon (and some, like solid state batteries, seem to be a long way off). Like others have said, while you're waiting on that to maybe materialize, you could have been driving an ID.4 for years.
 

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Just keep in mind that these battery technology "advancements" are related more to reducing the cost and increasing the supply. There are incremental improvements with energy density and longevity. The next true technology advancement is to solid state batteries and that isn't going to happen for the next two or three vehicle generations if that.
 

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We live in time where we have maximum exposure to early research and are ever aware of each tiny advancement. There will always be something else just around the corner. While there’s always been a big difference between ICE cars 10 years apart, they’ve been based on the science of burning fossil fuels. We now have money being heavily invested in hydrogen and batteries. We will see huge leaps every three years or so.
if you wait for the next leap in cheaper/further/faster, you‘ll never make a purchase. 250 miles of real range is substantial; especially when you can add 80% in 30 mins. Needing the 500 miles of the next leap is unlikely, you’d have stopped to fill up an ICE car then too.
We’re likely to see the increase in swapping every three years continue, many European dealers are seeing a huge shift in buying patterns and the personal lease market is growing immensely.
If you want a car that’s carbon neutral on arrival, is going to have seriously low maintenance costs and be as good as cars can be for the environment right now (hydrogen isn’t mass market yet so we’re stuck with not so great batteries), then take the plunge.
 

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ID.4 1st Edition White / Lunar Grey
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Just keep in mind that these battery technology "advancements" are related more to reducing the cost and increasing the supply.
This, and the current state of battery technology is stable enough that there ought not be any appreciable degradation over 10 years that would justify waiting. Leafs and early i3s have some notable degradation, but 2017-on battery management technology and active cooling have negated this concern.
 

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ID.4 FE GW
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This, and the current state of battery technology is stable enough that there ought not be any appreciable degradation over 10 years that would justify waiting. Leafs and early i3s have some notable degradation, but 2017-on battery management technology and active cooling have negated this concern.
Be careful here. Degradation depends on the battery chemistry, usage habits (charge rate, temperature, SOC when not in use), and number of cycles. Saying "no appreciable degradation over 10 years" will not be true if you do not treat the battery well. Just try doing 1000 cycles in 100+F heat always to 100% SOC with DCFC to prove this.
 

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VW ID.4 1st Max | Mangan Gray
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I bought my blue FE on the hope it truly would be a limited edition (2500?).
Anyone have a number of FEs produced and shipped to NA? How would you find that out?
for whats worth: you cant buy a id.4 1st anymore in europe. Whats not sold and available in the lot is another thing, or cars already in transport, but they dont accept any new orders for the 1st.
 
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ID.4 1st Edition White / Lunar Grey
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Be careful here. Degradation depends on...
Blanket statement on my part. Yes, I agree, owners are allowed to abuse their batteries. It's a prediction, ymmv, etc., but I don't expect any problems with VW and SK Innovations or LG Chem.
 

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ID.4 FE
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I bought my blue FE on the hope it truly would be a limited edition (2500?).
Anyone have a number of FEs produced and shipped to NA? How would you find that out?
It seems like the average dealer is getting 1 First Edition demo car and a minimum of 2 First Edition sale vehicles (reserved or unreserved). That would put you at maybe 1,800+ cars. Last month I had read pre-order numbers were pretty low, something like 4,000-5,000, with First editions having been sold out at that point. It looks like from tracker posted here its a pretty even split between PRO/PRO S order ands FE orders... so that would make me think 2,000-2,500 sounds about right. But that's just conjecture.

Edit: FWIW the initial pre-order run was 2,000 cars. Not sure if the 2nd round of FE reservations was just the availability of cancelled orders or if it added to that number.
 

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I know from a VW contact that there were right at 2000 FE's before the 2nd round. Don't know how many were added in that round.
 

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And, I hope it's not insensitive, but you mentioned your "time frame is shortening". If that's also a concern of yours, then it becomes even more important to make an impact sooner.
I personally do not believe in anthropogenic climate change. But if you want to "make an impact" by minimizing your carbon footprint, the best new car choice is not to buy one. By far, the best choice.

My time is also growing short, and I've been driving my car for 23 years now. No need to thank me.
 

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Dusk Blue ID.4 FE
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I know from a VW contact that there were right at 2000 FE's before the 2nd round. Don't know how many were added in that round.
We are thinking about 1800 went in the second round.


Any idea if dealer demos were included in the original 2000 count or is that another count to factor in?
 

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We are thinking about 1800 went in the second round.


Any idea if dealer demos were included in the original 2000 count or is that another count to factor in?
Not a good idea, but I wouldn't think so. but that is just a guess.
 

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I personally do not believe in anthropogenic climate change. But if you want to "make an impact" by minimizing your carbon footprint, the best new car choice is not to buy one. By far, the best choice.

My time is also growing short, and I've been driving my car for 23 years now. No need to thank me.
If you've been driving an ICE for the past 23 years, the right choice may very well be to buy an EV. Given that multiple studies have shown that an EV powered by any generation source is cleaner than an ICE burning gasoline, the short-term spike in emissions from new manufacturing (especially as VW is working to make ID.4 production carbon neutral) is absolutely less than the continued emissions from the tailpipe of an ICE.

Sure, the amount of driving makes the payback period shorter or longer, but continuing to drive an ICE is probably not the winning choice.

As far as climate change, I was responding to someone who does accept it (and by the way, emissions of carbon aren't the only reason to get away from ICE). If you want to snidely pat yourself on the back while not making practical choices that will lessen the degradation in quality of life for those after you, well... good luck to you. I don't care to engage with that.
 

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To the OP

You have a reservation, and you can back out all the way til delivery. At that time you can look at your situation and make a decision ( you can also add reservations for other cars along the way - maybe the Ionic 5? ). I personally needed a new vehicle now not in a year so I made the 1st Ed. purchase. I don't see a problem here.

I've think EVs now are sort of like PCs in the 90's, there's always gonna be a potentially better one over the horizon. But if you just wait for the end point of technology your gonna be waiting a decade. I spent a lot of money on PCs back then, but I got the use of them and don't regret it. Buy (or Lease) what you need when you need it, and maybe don't look at what's coming for a couple of years.
 
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