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The large sunroof is a range extender if used properly.

9055 Views 46 Replies 22 Participants Last post by BlueDH, 9 mo ago

SunWizard

Discussion Starter · Mar 21, 2021

I initially ordered a Pro AWD model without the sunroof, since the sun gets so intense here due to altitude I thought I would mostly keep it closed. But after more thinking and reading info on this forum, in cold weather that we get here in CO, it will be a range extender. Since I am the SunWizard and my house is totally solar for everything, I am always thinking of the sun. The dealer salesman after my test drive yesterday got real interested after he said "it will be cheap to charge this at home" and I answered "it will be free to charge it at my house". Then my wife chimed in "hey we need to go, you can't teach everyone you see about solar"

Now that I know the battery heater draws 5kw and the cabin heater another 5kw, it makes it worthwhile to have the sunroof model and keep the shade open at least when parked. This way the battery and cabin will be nicely preheated by the sun, keeping them from using as large amount of power on each cold days start up. Especially if I am out someplace and don't have my home high power L2 charger to pre-condition the battery & cabin. So I changed to the Pro S AWD model. Also since I really like the blue and its the only way to get that color. I also like the power lift hatch. My current car has that and it is a worthwhile feature that I did not appreciate its very usefulness until I had it.

Of course the opposite in hot weather, keep it closed. That will also help as a range extender since the car will have to spend less energy cooling the battery.

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ericy

· #2 · Mar 21, 2021

SunWizard said:
I initially ordered a Pro AWD model without the sunroof, since the sun gets so intense here due to altitude I thought I would mostly keep it closed. But after more thinking and reading info on this forum, in cold weather that we get here in CO, it will be a range extender. Since I am the SunWizard and my house is totally solar for everything, I am always thinking of the sun. The dealer salesman after my test drive yesterday got real interested after he said "it will be cheap to charge this at home" and I answered "it will be free to charge it at my house". Then my wife chimed in "hey we need to go, you can't teach everyone you see about solar"

Now that I know the battery heater draws 5kw and the cabin heater another 5kw, it makes it worthwhile to have the sunroof model and keep the shade open at least when parked. This way the battery and cabin will be nicely preheated by the sun, keeping them from using as large amount of power on each cold days start up. Especially if I am out someplace and don't have my home high power L2 charger to pre-condition the battery & cabin. So I changed to the Pro S AWD model. Also since I really like the blue and its the only way to get that color. I also like the power lift hatch. My current car has that and it is a worthwhile feature that I did not appreciate its very usefulness until I had it.

Of course the opposite in hot weather, keep it closed. That will also help as a range extender since the car will have to spend less energy cooling the battery.

I think you are right - I noticed the same effect in the Kona, and that had a much smaller sunroof. I was driving around today - outdoor temperatures around 50 degrees, and I had the climate system turned off. With the shade open, I was starting to get a little too warm.

Once summer hits and we are running the AC, then I will need to close the shade.

PoRscheTek

· #3 · Mar 21, 2021

How big of a solar system do you have? I just installed 35 panels for just under 12kw. I designed the system prior to deciding on the ID4 and now wish I’d added more panels as I figure I need another 10ish kWh per day of consumption

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ericy

· #4 · Mar 21, 2021

PoRscheTek said:
How big of a solar system do you have? I just installed 35 panels for just under 12kw. I designed the system prior to deciding on the ID4 and now wish I’d added more panels as I figure I need another 10ish kWh per day of consumption

We also have a solar system - 9.75kW - 39 panels, but they must be smaller than yours. Where we are, the rate is fixed and we don't get a reduced rate at night, so I tend to charge whenever it is convenient to me, and I am not making any effort to charge during the day. Our system was put in by the previous owner of the house, so I didn't have any paperwork - all I had to do was bug the installer to come out and repair one of the strings that wasn't working.

If we generate more from the solar than the house uses, we get credits in terms of kWh that offset the kWh that we consume when the weather is cooler. We still have a bill for something like 23$ for the assorted fees. Our big utility bills are in the winter when the heat pump is running, and the solar isn't producing as much.

With the pandemic, I just don't drive as much as I used to, so it isn't clear how often I will plugging in. But I have to head into DC tomorrow, and will try and make use of the free EA charging to top up again for the return trip.

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PoRscheTek

· #5 · Mar 21, 2021

Averaged out over the year are you breaking even production/consumption? I’m in the opposite scenario as we consume considerably more in the summer months with the AC going. (Central Florida) we have the same deal here, what ever power we put in we get credit for so charging the car whenever isn’t the issue. It’s just I like the fact we were “energy independent” obviously on the grid so not technically but making what we do consume. With ID4 consumption at aprox 3mi per kw I’ll be using 10-12 daily commute. I think that will exceed my production.

SunWizard

Discussion Starter · #6 · Mar 21, 2021 (Edited)

PoRscheTek said:
How big of a solar system do you have? I just installed 35 panels for just under 12kw. I designed the system prior to deciding on the ID4 and now wish I’d added more panels as I figure I need another 10ish kWh per day of consumption

Mine is 8.25kw and I installed it 8 years ago, so its already paid for itself and now saves me $1200 per year. I am net positive (make more than I consume per year) so I get a check from the power co each year for around $200. Which will now be less with the EV. Then for fun I took 12 old used panels, batteries, and inverter to make a 2.2kw solar trailer. I could tow that around with my ID.4 and have an even bigger range extender! I will use it for the home charging when I don't need the L2 charger I plan to get.

I wonder whether the ID.4 can charge with the L1 cable while driving down the road? And what speed would 2.2kw get me? I am sure its slow, but that would be the speed I could drive all (sunny) day just running off the solar trailer. I bet that would get some looks going down the road behind my ID.4!

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ericy

· #7 · Mar 21, 2021

PoRscheTek said:
Averaged out over the year are you breaking even production/consumption? I’m in the opposite scenario as we consume considerably more in the summer months with the AC going. (Central Florida) we have the same deal here, what ever power we put in we get credit for so charging the car whenever isn’t the issue. It’s just I like the fact we were “energy independent” obviously on the grid so not technically but making what we do consume. With ID4 consumption at aprox 3mi per kw I’ll be using 10-12 daily commute. I think that will exceed my production.

I wish. For 2019 net used from Delmarva Power 8.238MWh, net generated from solar 13.938MWh. Our house is entirely electric with the exception of a gas fireplace that is largely decorative. Running those heat pumps in the winter is what really kicks the usage up (esp if the aux heat comes on).

PoRscheTek

· #8 · Mar 21, 2021

SunWizard said:
Mine is 8.25kw and I installed it 8 years ago, so its already paid for itself and now saves me $1200 per year. I am net positive (make more than I consume per year) so I get a check from the power co each year for around $200. Which will now be less with the EV. Then for fun I took 12 old used panels, batteries, and inverter to make a 2.2kw solar trailer. I could tow that around with my ID.4 and have an even bigger range extender! I will use it for the home charging when I don't need the L2 charger I plan to get.

That’s awesome I’d love to see a picture of that ingenuity when time allows!

PoRscheTek

· #9 · Mar 21, 2021

ericy said:
I wish. For 2019 net used from Delmarva Power 8.238MWh, net generated from solar 13.938MWh. Our house is entirely electric with the exception of a gas fireplace that is largely decorative. Running those heat pumps in the winter is what really kicks the usage up (esp if the aux heat comes on).

Wow yeah you use some power!😳 we are between 15-18 MWh. Our system is guaranteed to produce just over 17. If it falls short the Installer will pay 2 times the price per kWh for the shortfall.

Bindslind

· #10 · Mar 22, 2021

I figured out my solar advantage pretty quickly after my initial home charge of my id in the evening after getting back from the dealership. My solar app was showing the crazy draw and it occurred to me that I should probably do this on a sunny day. The next day I plugged it in was a beautiful one in New England and the sun did all the work. We also have a pretty modest system at 4.4kw so I'd say that's pretty good deal.

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Timbobh

· #11 · Mar 22, 2021

This is interesting. I actually used the opposite reasoning for avoiding the glass roof. I thought that in cold temperatures (especially at night) the glass roof, even with the sunshade closed, would be more poorly insulated than a car without it. So to maximize cold weather range, I figured going without would be the best. I totally see the day time argument for the glass roof warming the car though! It would be neat to see a range comparison evaluating these differences.

SunWizard

Discussion Starter · #12 · Mar 22, 2021

Timbobh said:
This is interesting. I actually used the opposite reasoning for avoiding the glass roof. I thought that in cold temperatures (especially at night) the glass roof, even with the sunshade closed, would be more poorly insulated than a car without it. So to maximize cold weather range, I figured going without would be the best. I totally see the day time argument for the glass roof warming the car though! It would be neat to see a range comparison evaluating these differences.

With all the other windows, sunroof or not there will be a cold cabin at night. Once I get my ID.4, I have a remote wireless temperature sender I can put inside there to see how much it stays above ambient at night, and then somebody else could do that without the sunroof. This is an argument in favor of keeping it inside a garage at night, and outside on sunny days.

Timbobh

· #13 · Mar 22, 2021

SunWizard said:
With all the other windows, sunroof or not there will be a cold cabin at night. Once I get my ID.4, I have a remote wireless temperature sender I can put inside there to see how much it stays above ambient at night, and then somebody else could do that without the sunroof. This is an argument in favor of keeping it inside a garage at night, and outside on sunny days.

Yes, I think you are right for when it is parked. Overnight, the number of windows won't matter because the cabin will have enough time to cool all the way down no matter what. I was mostly thinking about it while driving. More windows = more heat loss = more energy to keep the cabin comfortable while driving. I'm probably over thinking it, but it helped me personally justify leaving it off haha

papab

· #14 · Mar 22, 2021

If you're in a temperate climate (40deg lat or more), the sun is pretty low in the sky in the winter. We'll get more solar gain from the windows & windshield than the sunroof. I'd rather do without the sunroof myself, but at least VW has the shade slider

I have 4.4 kw rooftop solar, net surplus now, with enough for my future ecar

SunWizard

Discussion Starter · #15 · Mar 22, 2021 (Edited)

papab said:
If you're in a temperate climate (40deg lat or more), the sun is pretty low in the sky in the winter. We'll get more solar gain from the windows & windshield than the sunroof. I'd rather do without the sunroof myself, but at least VW has the shade slider

I have 4.4 kw rooftop solar, net surplus now, with enough for my future ecar

I am at lat.40.5 and after driving one the sunroof is so big that no matter which way I park it it adds about 50% to the windows or windshield area even with the low sun angle. I will experiment with parking it different ways once I get mine and can report the actual temperature difference it creates open versus closed on 2 similarly cold, clear days like we usually get.

On my test drive with it 50F and 2' of snow I needed no cabin heat and it even got a little too hot with the sun hitting me through it and the fan on high.

GTI2ID4

· #16 · Mar 31, 2021

I've been utilizing the glass on sunny Spring days in PA. Climate OFF, sunshade completely OPEN and cracking the windows when it gets too warm. It's a nice way to optimize range. I'm still plugging in 110v at home with the supplied charger until I decide how to proceed with Level 2, so I need all the help I can get!

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gtwhitegold

· #17 · Jun 10, 2021

I don't think that the shade is that effective to try and cool the vehicle down. I can cool my FIAT 500e with just having the windows down. Not so much in the ID.4. I definitely need the AC running in there.

Bindslind

· #18 · Jun 10, 2021

gtwhitegold said:
I don't think that the shade is that effective to try and cool the vehicle down. I can cool my FIAT 500e with just having the windows down. Not so much in the ID.4. I definitely need the AC running in there.

I agree for hot/humid days. We just had a heat wave in the northeast and while you could open the windows for initial relief the FE's closed roof tends to absorb the sun and radiates a bunch of heat throughout the interior. At that point you really can't avoid running the ac.

Really wished the top of the material they used for the retractable had better insulation. 🙁

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ericy

· #19 · Jun 10, 2021

Bindslind said:
Really wished the top of the material they used for the retractable had better insulation. 🙁

Even a lighter color would help. I suppose in theory you could slide some light-colored material up there between the shade and the window. No idea if it would help. Or for that matter, how to get the thing in and out without messing something up.

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plh

· #20 · Jun 10, 2021

And what would happen when you retract the shade? I'm guessing there isn't a whole lot of room where the shade rolls up.

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