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Discussion Starter #1
Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda claimed that electric vehicles are overhyped as being clean.
 

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He has a point of course in that true EV 'cleanliness' is only as good as the upstream power generation.
 

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The first new car I bought was 2005 Prius (silver like everyone else) and had a chance back in 1999 to drive a right hand drive first generation Prius. I am very disappointed in Toyota in more recent years. They went from being in the lead in more environmentally friendly cars to being part of the resistance to stricter California car emissions standards. I would be very surprised to see them with vehicles that are equal to the ID.3/ID.4 sooner than 2024.
 

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He has a point of course in that true EV 'cleanliness' is only as good as the upstream power generation.
Except that he doesn't have a point and the 'cleanliness' isn't only as good as the upstream power generation (although obviously the greener the power generation, the better) The most comprehensive study on the environmental impact on ICE vs BEV to date is this study by Auke Hoekstra. Also explained in this Twitter thread.
 

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They were at the forefront of hybrid sales and mistakenly thought they could just coast on that forever. Now they're behind the times and being stubborn about it. You know how many people would have been all over Toyota quality and pricing in the EV market? Instead they wasted money on stupid advertisements showing charging stations covered in cobwebs, to try and convince the public that EVs were passé.
 

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EV is only as clean as your source of electricity. Living in area that is 100% coal powered means that with EV my footprint does not decrease relative to ICE for almost 7 years by which time battery pack is dead and needs replacement.

Getting 8kw worth of solar panels is still expensive and would run around at least 25k even after incentives and that should be really taken into account when buying an EV to be clean.

They have a good point in that EV just really shift the pollution point from your tailpipe to the power plant in most cases unless you live in area that is predominantly powered from renewable sources.
 

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EV is only as clean as your source of electricity. Living in area that is 100% coal powered means that with EV my footprint does not decrease relative to ICE for almost 7 years by which time battery pack is dead and needs replacement.
This is factual incorrect and I really wish people would stop repeating this big oil sponsored nonsense. As shared two comments above, here's a more accurate source.
 

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Happy owner of a blue ID.4 FE
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Even if you just shift fossil fuel burning from car to power plant there’s a net reduction in CO2 and other emissions. A gasoline powered car is only about 20% efficient, the rest of the energy in gas turns into heat. A power plant, however, can run at optimal rpm on highly efficient machinery and approaches the thermodynamic limit of 35% efficiency. Still not great, but the better efficiency lowers emissions more than linearly, since the optimal burning massively reduces soot and NOx emissions.
(I’m not a fan of fossil fuel based power plants, just wanted to point out thermodynamic realities. )
 
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