Volkswagen ID Forum banner
81 - 89 of 89 Posts

·
Registered User
VW ID.4 FE Dusk Blue
Joined
·
115 Posts
Discussion Starter · #81 ·
Thanks for the reply. I'm actually not assumed 2x amperage. I understand the difference between amps and volts. I also understand how 120 vs 240 works.

My question is regarding the rating of the VW-supplied equipment. If it can be connected (plugged in) to a 20 amp 240 volt circuit, rather than a 15 amp 240 volt circuit, would it feed the car more juice? More importantly, is the device rated for 20 amps or 15?

Later this morning I'll look at it and answer my own question, but I couldn't do that last night as my wife was sleeping and opening the garage door triggers a beep from my alarm system.
Regardless of voltage, the VW supplied charger advertises 10 amps of available current. It seems it was designed with the intention of not being on a fully dedicated circuit, such as in a garage where you might share with lights and a garage door opener. I saw no easy way (e.g. DIP switches) to change this to something higher such as 16 amps.

I would really encourage you to read this 80 post thread as many of your questions have already been answered. Additionally, the label on the back of the EVSE shows some of these details as well.
 

·
Super Moderator
ID.4 1st Edition
Joined
·
2,016 Posts
The USA supplied cable is really only designed/intended as a "charge cable of last resort" and purposely so as anticipated to be in the same circuit company of other garage items and presumed therefore only a 120V 15A/20A outlet common use circuit.
They especially don't want it pulling too many amps on an older home's circuitry. Litigation risk aversion, as always (blame the ambulance chasers if you must).
The typical home L2 EVSE is 240V 50A wired (40A flow) and dedicated use.
 

·
Registered User
ID.4 1st Edition White / Lunar Grey
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
In case anyone was wondering, although somewhat unconventional, Nai3T is using "ground return" on his 240V 12-2 fabricated extension cord. A 10-3 is of course more common and arguably safer
I purposefully ran 10-3 in the wall to the outlet for future use, and I installed a GFCI breaker in the panel to protect it. But once it hits the receptacle, the 6-20 has no place to connect a neutral. The wire just sits unused in the box. Same with the Duosida EVSE — no neutral connection.

From that standpoint, a 12-3 extension cord would be useless.

The receptacle is a dual voltage 240 / 120 and has a neutral, but only for the 120v connection. Rather than share a hot, the 120 side is on a separate circuit, so I can run a tool while charging.

I'd never say running no neutral in a 240 volt setup is less safe nor unconventional, it's a matter of what the equipment calls for. Hardwired EVSEs, air compressors, water heaters I've installed don't have neutral connections.

Edited : In fact, the Clipper Creek unit I installed was set up with 14-50 plug, but when I opened it to convert it to hardwired, I noticed the plug's neutral doesn't carry into the box (just 2 hots + GND) . As such, the 70' run of 6 gauge I recently installed is without neutral, just two primaries and a ground, per Clipper Creek's instructions and NEC requirements.

3905
 

·
Super Moderator
ID.4 1st Edition
Joined
·
2,016 Posts
I was expecting defensive pushback. Not really necessary. I have no issue with how you did it as it's your call. In fact I picked a graphic just to show both schemes. I also cited "Neutral and ground buses are bonded within the panel."

The ground wiring system is supposed to be the end-to-end path of least resistance for maximum safety. nuff said.
I purposefully ran 10-3 in the wall to the outlet for future use, and I installed a GFCI breaker in the panel to protect it. But once it hits the receptacle, the 6-20 has no place to connect a neutral. The wire just sits unused in the box. Same with the Duosida EVSE — no neutral connection.

From that standpoint, a 12-3 extension cord would be useless.

The receptacle is a dual voltage 240 / 120 and has a neutral, but only for the 120v connection. Rather than share a hot, the 120 side is on a separate circuit, so I can run a tool while charging.

I'd never say running no neutral in a 240 volt setup is less safe nor unconventional, it's a matter of what the equipment calls for. Hardwired EVSEs, air compressors, water heaters I've installed don't have neutral connections.

In fact, the Clipper Creek unit I installed was set up with 14-50 plug, but when I opened it to convert it to hardwired, I noticed the neutral went directly to the EVSE's grounding bar. It's not used (unless you consider having a redundant path to ground useful). As such, the 70' run of 6 gauge I recently installed is without neutral, just two primaries and a ground, per Clipper Creek's instructions and NEC requirements.

View attachment 3905
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
654 Posts
In fact, the Clipper Creek unit I installed was set up with 14-50 plug, but when I opened it to convert it to hardwired, I noticed the neutral went directly to the EVSE's grounding bar.
This is bad and against NEC code. There must only be one place where the neutral is connected to ground and that is in the main breaker panel. Extra connections between ground and neutral may result in circulating current in the ground path, stray current introduced in the earth or in a structure, and stray voltage. At least by not connecting the neutral to anything you avoid this (edit: but the usual 14-50 does have neutral, and current flowing on the ground wire is bad and is what the required GFCI breakers are to protect from and trip at 5ma =0.005amps of current.)
 

·
Registered User
ID.4 1st Edition White / Lunar Grey
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
I was expecting defensive pushback. Not really necessary....
Well of course I'm going to have something to say when you write "unconventional and less safe" when that's absolutely not the case. It's one of the standards for wiring 240, and repurposing the neutral is exactly what Diosida and VW are doing in their equipment & cords.

In fact, even our handy dandy J1772 connectors we all plug into our cars use this method. PIN 2 is neutral at 120v, hot at 240v. There's no separate neutral.
 

·
Registered User
ID.4 1st Edition White / Lunar Grey
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
This is bad and against NEC code....
I believe you're right, and because I know CC wouldn't push a noncompliant product out, I checked.

I miss-remembered.

The CC 14-50 pigtail leaves the neutral buried in the cord. There's only two hots and a ground entering the box. No connection to the neutral pin. The ground bar only has three positions: ground in, ground out, and ground to the main board.

Apologies, and I'll edit my post.

3907
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
6 Posts
I found this post using google searching for ino about the stock charger of the new VW.
First of all.what most people call "charger" is actually just an external safely and power limiter unit, the"Charger" is inside the car.

Like 99% of the "external unit called charger" are capable of managing 240v. Is most cases also, is the exactly same unit that is sold in countries that are 220v.

The "external charger" will check ground, temperature (some even will check the plug temperature, like the stock charger from the new models of Volt and all Bolt and VW e-Golf).

Will communicate with the internal charger and limit the power to 4, 8 or 12 amps depending on model.

I been making adapters for stock charger for 5 years. the ONLY charger that wasn't capable to use 240 was the first Volt charger (the ugly with a handle on top) , dont remember specifically butit was something like the ground and neutral where in short, and they board had a secondary port to resolder the cable to make it 240v. They even had problems on house installation where the live was on the neutral side of the outlet.

A stock charger will charge at 12a in 240v since is the minimum that the internal charger will do at 240. Some chargers do 16a. At the end of the day, with a simple adapter and the stock charger you can charger 2 to 3 times faster, expending 60U$ without modifying anything in the house, just using a dryer outlet, or a furnace outlet (6-20).

I make these adapters, purchasing pars as a lot, selling them for the same price that purchasing the parts from home depot cost. I made so little on this, but I like to think that in a way, I'm helping to this petrol to electric car switching.
I would love to buy one from you also.
 
81 - 89 of 89 Posts
Top