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US ID.4 included EVSE charger

54K views 100 replies 40 participants last post by  SunWizard 
#1 ·
I was able to snap a picture of the included Level 1 120 volt EV Cord Set at the dealership today.

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I found https://www.aptiv.com/docs/default-source/user-manual/english-user-manual-ic-cpd.pdf, which appears to be the manual for this device. Although the US English specific labeling on the back says 60 Hz and 120 volts, the user manual says 50 or 60 Hz, and 100-240 volts, with a "depending on the model" caveat.

Once I get my ID.4, I'll take a closer look at this to see if it can be used as a 240 volt EVSE with an adapter. I think there is a good chance the components are the same worldwide and it is universal voltage.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
I don't think you can convert to 240V. The manual states "The IC-CPD charging equipment provides a standard grounded power connection to residential building sockets from 100 V to 240 V 50/60 Hz (depending on the model variant) and a charging current of 6 A up to 16 A according to the specifications on the back label of the control box of your device."

There are obviously different variants by country and the label has 120V @ 10A. Also, the only NEMA connector shown in the manual is the 5-15. It's sad the EVSE is even rated to 10A. At 1.2kW, the car only charges 2 miles/hr. It should at least be 12A. They should be able to have an adapters for 240V (or even NEMA 5-20) but doesn't seem likely.

You are likely better off just buying an aftermarket mobile EVSE than trying to convert the included one to 240V.

EDIT: Also, looking at the picture, I see 3×14AWG and 18AWG wirings (can't tell if they are different cables). That wiring can't support more than 15A or 10A.
 
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#6 ·
That looks pretty shitty. I hoped they'd ship a 110/220v L1/L2 charger with replaceable plugs, just like Tesla bundles with their cars. It's not the end of the world since you can buy one for just $250 on Amazon, but it sure would have been nice to get one with the car.

The yellow cable looks horrible btw.
 
#7 ·
That looks pretty shitty. I hoped they'd ship a 110/220v L1/L2 charger with replaceable plugs, just like Tesla bundles with their cars. It's not the end of the world since you can buy one for just $250 on Amazon, but it sure would have been nice to get one with the car.

The yellow cable looks horrible btw.
Also the Mustang Mach-e ships with a L1/L2 charger
 
#11 ·
18awg wire seems a bit small for carrying 10amps for extended periods. Most of the amp calculators I can find call for 14awg to pull 10 amps.
 
#13 ·
I am thinking the cable has both wires inside. J1772 has 5 pins - two power, a ground, a control pilot and proximity detection. I am guessing the control pilot and proximity detection are low voltage and use the 18awg wire.
 
#18 ·
Some of the companies that offer L2 EVSE’s make portable versions. Technically, any plug-in version is portable. However, the cables are long and often very thick, and not very portable at all in my opinion, not to mention the bulk of the L2 EVSE in general. I’ve heard of this one, but have no experience with it nor have I read any first-person accounts of using it. It has lots of plug adapters available. I don’t think it can switch between 120v/240v, however.

 
#21 ·
I’m curious what you will find out, @DanM.

For my own use I will likely buy the MUSTART Travelmaster unit that was linked above. At home on a (to be installed) 14-50 outlet it will supply 32A and charge the car from 20% to 80% in 6-7 hours on low priced electricity after midnight (we are on a time of use plan here in San Diego). When we visit my son’s family we can plug into his 10-30 dryer outlet with another plug adapter and recharge at a safe 24A from between 10% and 25% (depending on temperature and how fast we drive) to 100% in 12-14 hours. When we road trip or camp it will be a nice backup that can plug into campground outlets or whatever power sources we can scrounge up and beg to use. I might buy one or the other extra plug adapter depending on what we encounter. I like that this unit recognizes the connected plug adapter and sets the power limit accordingly. No fuss, no muss, and most importantly, automatic safety.
 
#22 ·
I am of the same mind on that charger. The reviews seem very good and the ability to adapt to almost any plug and amperage seems to be the smart move. This will allow me to charge at work, home and my son's all with different plugs but the same charger. this one seems to be the best bang for the buck
 
#23 ·
On the "universal portable charger" front, this is the best option I've come across if you want to minimize the number of things you have to pack to be prepared: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07J4VCYKL/
It comes with a plethora of adapters to support just about any plug you'd encounter. It is only capable of 16 amps, however. I haven't bought or used it, so don't treat this as an endorsement!
 
#25 ·
At the end of the day 6-50 and 14-50 accomplish the same thing. The major difference is that 14-50 includes a neutral wire. 14-50 is preferred for things that need both 240 and 120 since it will be 120v between either leg and neutral.

14-50 is common for RV hook-ups due to a lot of things in an RV running at 120v, so it makes more sense to have easy access to 120.
 
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#26 ·
Just sharing my experience in regards to this thread:
I purchased the previous model Electrify America EVSE which came with the 14-50 as the plug. I replaced the unused dryer 30 amp breaker with a 40 amp and ran 6-3 cable to the outlet. We tested this on my neighbor's Bolt and it ended up drawing apprx 7kw. 7 is what the evse is rated so I consider this a success.
 
#27 ·
Just sharing my experience in regards to this thread:
I purchased the previous model Electrify America EVSE which came with the 14-50 as the plug. I replaced the unused dryer 30 amp breaker with a 40 amp and ran 6-3 cable to the outlet. We tested this on my neighbor's Bolt and it ended up drawing apprx 7kw. 7 is what the evse is rated so I consider this a success.
I had the "Power Day" streaming in the background. They showed Enel as a partner (JuiceBox). Done know what that means.

There was also a presentation from EA.
 
#31 ·
Suggest you check with your local electrician for estimates. (Not go through Qmerit) Installing a 14-50 outlet or hard wire is not rocket science. Any qualified electrician should be able to easily do so. You can also order the ChargePoint EVSE through Amazon. Many of us have found Qmerit not the best experience.
 
#33 ·
I submitted the online Qmerit form and heard from a local installer right away. The guy was a bit of a jerk which, in my opinion is hard to do online, but not a shock given his gender and mine! I thought that the bid was high. My EV specialist has an electrician that she uses and is recommending. The dealer is also providing free level 2 chargers to the first 50 customers (score for me). I will see if the other bid is less than Qmerit.
 
#35 · (Edited)
I believe the issue with 14-50 is that someone can come along and plug a non-EVSE into it even though it won't be wired up like a true 14-50. That's been the historical concern so I'm only assuming that has guided the migration to the 6-50.

In any case, I have a dual EVSE with a L6-20P on the end with an L6-20R > 5-15P adapter. Additional adapters can be made and/or purchased. It can charge up to 26A with plenty of margin--configurable via the menu. It's based on openEVSE (5.0.1 firmware) and was built by a retired engineer in Orange County who was providing them to Leaf owners at cost of materials to keep his hands busy. I don't think he makes them anymore, but he does support the ones he built for the cost of shipping (or drop-off).

I can post pictures if anyone's interested. I paid $300 for it and would let it go for the same or a reasonable lesser amount. We originally bought it to go camping with our eGolf but that never happened and it's unlikely to happen anytime in the near future with the ID4. I also have several 240v wall units...got a bit carried away and put one in each garage for each car once I found someone local making good units. The same thing is about double on their website--half the cost is the charge cable itself.

It's utilitarian looking, with a nice (flexible) charge cable, and does have a gasket although I wouldn't attest to its water resistant capabilities--it would be trivial to change enclosures, though.

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#38 ·
A level 1 portable charger seems to me like a pretty useless device. What is the use case for one of these? I had an Audi A3 e-tron that had a portable level 1/2 combo charger which I never used once in three years. It seems insultingly cheap for VW to have included this. I can't see a reason to haul this around with me. I also can't see a reason for getting a portable level 2 charger. Am I missing something?
 
#39 ·
Am I missing something?
Sure. You pull up to grandma and grandpa's house late at night with tired kids and the charge about depleted. They have a 15A circuit in their driveway. You plug in for the weekend so there's some juice in your tank.

You're trying to stretch it from Alberquewue to Vegas and come up short in BFE with no charging stops for miles, Do you call for a tow or pull into a flea bag and run an extension cord out to your car overnight?

You get home and your L2 took a dump. It's late, you don't want to bother with this tonight. Bust out your 10A and plug it in to the porch light circuit and worry about it tomorrow morning.
 
#43 · (Edited)
If they "cheaped out" on a Homelink mirror because their data says only x% of their customers use it, then yeah I'd expect them to "cheap out" on a backup charger that, like a spare tire and jack, will probably never be used by the majority of owners. I think a more appropriate way of thinking about it is they focused on delivering the goods and eliminating unnecessary costs with this model. Most of these EVSEs probably end up in landfill never used.

I think calling it an "emergency charger" is like BMW calling theirs an "occasional use charger." It implies that is shouldn't be used regularly. I think if it suits somebody -- even plugging it at work for 8 hour, 5 day a week -- it's OK to use all the time. Sure I agree there are better options available for not much money, but this device isn't like a can of Fix-A-Flat.
 
#46 ·
One point of caution for people using 14-50 and 10-30 plugs is that they are not intended to be plugged/unplugged regularly. If you're going to use those travel ones at home then either buy another adapter for on the road or leave one plugged in and disconnect it at the EVSE end instead of the wall receptacle.

I also never used my dual use openEVSE charger but it was $300 bucks well spent insurance when we had an 86 mile range EV. I noticed some people were talking about going camping and you'd be able to plug them into a camp site, which was a common reason to buying these back in the day. We didn't have anywhere near the selection we have now. They were mostly homegrown back then, like mine, and I still prefer to support those open source projects.
 
#65 ·
Thats a little confusing, since the RVs are using 14-50 for years, and RV Parks has the same outlets since they open. So I'm pretty sure that they are ok to pug and unplug regularly, since I saw rv parks that are 30 years old with the same outlets where are connected and disconnected at least 3 times a week during those 30 years. And they are under the sun, and weather. So, yes. I bet that the 14-50 are ok to be normally plugged and unplugged.
 
#48 ·
Ok, I did some research. The Electrify America EVSE isn't even available yet! Kinda lame. But, I learned alot about charging in my research. The amps are what is important. More amps (flow) means a faster charge. So, I really wanted a 48amps EVSE to get the fastest charge rate. I also learned that 14-50 plugs are built to support up to 40amps. So, I considered hardwiring to get that extra 8amps. Then, I found out that my landlord will only allow me to install a 50 amps circuit breaker. In order to run 48amps continuous power the electric standard is a 60amps circuit breaker. Also, a 14-50 will only support up to 40amps. So, I had a 50amp circuit breaker installed and a 14-50 plug put into my garage. Now, I am glad I did that because when we move I will be able to just leave the new plug and take my EVSE. If I had hardwired it I would have had to pay to un-hardwire to take my EVSE. So, for my preferences I got the Grizzl-e avalanche. I would not recommend the avalanche typically because the company makes a separate hot climate or cold climate EVSE. But, because of the nature of my profession I may find my self in both an extreme cold or extreme hot environment and planned accordingly. If you have no plans on moving outside of your current climate I would recommend the one that suits your climate best and save a few bucks. I have now used the charger twice with absolutely no issues. It charges at 34(ish)mph. I hope this helps on your search for an at home EVSE.
 
#49 ·
The amps are what is important. More amps (flow) means a faster charge. So, I really wanted a 48amps EVSE to get the fastest charge rate.
There's one more variable that's a factor: voltage. A Level 2 charger can take 208 to 240 volts, and the difference is 208x48 = 9,984 watts vs. 240x48 = 11,520 watts, and that's ultimately what the car's charger is working with to replenish the battery. But you're right from the standpoint that you can upgrade the amperage of your circuit within reason, but 208 or 240 is dictated by what the power company delivers.

I am glad I did that because when we move I will be able to just leave the new plug and take my EVSE. If I had hardwired it I would have had to pay to un-hardwire to take my EVSE.
I just want to throw a couple of considerations in the mix (not for you bekahb, just for anybody else reading this and considering hard wiring):
  • connecting / disconnecting a hardwired connection is just a matter of removing the face plate and disconnecting three wire nuts, preferably with the circuit breaker open!
  • hardwire installations don't require a neutral, which can be a small cost consideration when purchasing 6 gauge wire
  • hardwire installations don't require a GFCI; I believe it's now code that 14-50 receptacles are protected
  • 14-50 installations by code only allow the EVSE to have a 1-foot pigtail which limits where the box may be mounted
 
#52 ·
In case anyone was curious, I opened up the US model included EVSE and took a look. While the specs are disappointing, the construction is not- this is a very weather resistant enclosure, and the cable entrances are well constructed and shouldn't be very susceptible to damage from yanking on the cord.

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I started looking up some components to try and figure out if there is going to be any smoke and fireworks if I try this thing out at 240 volts, but haven't reached any conclusions just yet.

The bridge rectifier chip (LB10S) is good up to 1000 volts, and the capacitors I was able to look at seemed OK as well for both 120 and 240 volts. I think I know which chip is controlling and regulating the SMPS (switch mode power supply), but I have been unable to find a datasheet for it. These components are one the left side of the board, near the visible capacitors and transformers.

I don't see any DIP switches or obvious jumpers or anything to control the allowed amperage sent on the control pilot, so it is likely programmed into the main processor chip (FS32K142M), which you can see behind the orange wire on the right side of the board.

The black boxes are the relays to switch Hot/Neutral/Protective Earth on and off, and the red box is a Residual Current Monitoring Unit (RCMU101SM1).
 
#63 ·
In case anyone was curious, I opened up the US model included EVSE and took a look. While the specs are disappointing, the construction is not- this is a very weather resistant enclosure, and the cable entrances are well constructed and shouldn't be very susceptible to damage from yanking on the cord.
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I started looking up some components to try and figure out if there is going to be any smoke and fireworks if I try this thing out at 240 volts, but haven't reached any conclusions just yet.
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Hi!
Did you try to compare this US-Unit to the European Standard Volkswagen-Group 230 Volt (+ - 10 Volt) 10A EVSE? Did you try to take a look at the European "VW 1EA971675AB"?
10 Amp 230V are realy the standard for this type of charging (230 Volt Schuko-Plug) in Europe, also with the plug-in hybrids.
 
#53 ·
I found the information and datasheet for the SMPS switching regulator chip. It looks like a NCP1075 chip. According to the datasheet, it should operate on a range from 85−265 Vac. The capacitor between the bridge rectifier and chip is rated for 400V, so that shouldn't be an issue.
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My confidence is growing that the charger won't let out the magic smoke if operated on split-phase 240 volts. I might take a trip to the store this weekend to get a few parts to try it out as safely as possible.
 
#54 ·
I'm curious though if a particular component is rated for 85 to 265v that only implies one hot leg with a neutral, right? I'm with you though, why design for 120 when a universal design for 240 can be done for no added cost. I'm willing to sacrafice mine and have the necessary adapters, I'll test on Saturday.
 
#56 ·
Not sure my Duosida had a relay, I've never heard it click.

Also, the wire shouldn't need to change. 120v 16A needs a 12 gauge hot and 12 gauge neutral. For 240 volts split, it's two 12 gauge hots, basically the neutral gets repurposed since it's already the correct gauge. In fact, the 50 foot extension cord I use is just a standard (good quality) 12 gauge cord sold for 120 volts but with new connectors also used for 240 volts, no issues.
 
#57 ·
Mine has an L620P so I can charge with a standard 5-15R or up to 32A with the appropriate plug.

You have a connector that allows you to plug into two 120v receptacles? If it's using two 120 outlets, that would explain why yours doesn't have a relay. It would require users to make sure their outlets were on different branches so that's probably why VW isn't setup for that.
 
#59 · (Edited)
You have a connector that allows you to plug into two 120v receptacles?

No, single receptacle. My Duosida EVSE has a 6-20P. I modified the extension cord with a 6-20R, but left the conventional 5-15 on the other end, and have a slew of 20A receptacles I can plug into at work. I made a pigtail to plug into a 6-20 at home when I want the faster rate. It runs at 16A in either mode. I have to remember to select "reduced current" in the car if I'm plugging in to a 15A circuit.

I just finished installing a 120 / 240 receptacle outside my garage to greatly uncomplicated my charging. This is primarily for the i3. I'm at the tail end of getting a 40A unit set up for the ID.4.
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