[teddyh]

I currently own a 2021 RAV4 Prime, and have owned it for about 6 months after buying it certified pre-owned. I have been considering switching to a used 2021 ID.4 Pro S AWD as I feel ready to fully switch to electric. I would be able to let go of my 2021 Rav4 Prime SE and switch to the 2021 ID.4 without paying extra. I asked on reddit to help me make my decision and I feel pretty confident.

Is this trade "worth it"? Am I missing something important by buying an older model of the ID.4? Based on research I've done I'm seeing that if my 2021 has version 3.1.0 as the software it should fix most of the software kinks from the 2021 model. Has the battery recall been addressed with this update as well?

Original post on reddit here: https://www.reddit.com/r/VWiD4Owners/comments/11r9465
Thank you so much for your help!

 

[rth121]

How much are you getting for the Rav4 Prime? Breaking even when purchased CPO?

Majority of the 2021 should be still on the old software, as the initial rollout to 3.1 was paused. If the vehicle is on 3.1, the 12v battery is replaced.

I'm assuming you will be home charging since buying an used ID.4 does not come with free Electrify America charging for 3 years.

 

[teddyh]

Thank you so much!

How much are you getting for the Rav4 Prime? Breaking even when purchased CPO?

About $37,000 which is definitely not close to what I paid for CPO but I made a mistake with that. That was my first time buying a car since moving to the U.S. and I guess I wasn't anywhere well-prepped to deal with "stealerships." I learned my lessons 🤦‍♀️ I just found a used ID.4 for that price point, so replacing it will be breakeven.

Majority of the 2021 should be still on the old software, as the initial rollout to 3.1 was paused. If the vehicle is on 3.1, the 12v battery is replaced.

Oh no! Any chance this is resuming soon? When and why did it pause?

I'm assuming you will be home charging since buying an used ID.4 does not come with free Electrify America charging for 3 years.

Unfortunate. I will try to contact the owner / volkswagen / electrify america to try but I am not counting on it. My workplace has a few L2 chargers. My apartment provides outlets for L1 and the grocery store in front of me has Volta. I also don't mind paying for EA if needed.

 

[eb2143]

What are the reasons you feel 'ready to go full electric?' what specifically are you looking to gain over the RAV4? That may help users here advise you. My inclination having driven both and owning a 2021 would tend against this swap, especially for sole vehicle. If the work chargers are easily available and/or your commute is less than 40 miles or so and there are convenient 120V outlets at your apartment, then the charging on a daily basis wouldn't be too frustrating. If you need to rely on DCFC, that swings the pendulum way toward not switching for frustration and monetary reasons.

The prime is just as efficient in EV mode as ID4 and is a similar size. So the only reason to switch the way I see it is if something really bugs you about the RAV4 Prime that is 'fixed' by the switch. From charging and environmental impact standpoint, switching to ID4 is going to increase potential charging frustration and unlikely to change your carbon footprint and could be more expensive to operate.

 

[Manybees]

I've had a 2021 AWD Pro S with the 2.1 software for 13 months and about 16,000 miles. I've had zero issues with it, either software or mechanical, and I just love how it drives. It's spacious inside and is well built overall.

The car does have some quirky design decisions with some interior controls, but I got used to them within hours/days. I keep hearing complaints about "the software" from others here and elsewhere, but it's perfectly adequate for my uses. I use Apple CarPlay 95% of the time, so the ID.4's built-in nav and media playback software is prettty unfamilar to me.

Take my comments for what they're worth, but also take negative responses here and elsewhere with a grain of salt, knowing that social media and Internet forums skew toward negativity and the airing of grievances. If you can, drive the car yourself and come to your own decision. Only you really know what you're looking for in the end.

 

[rth121]

If you rely on the DCFC infrastructure, I would highly be against any CCS vehicles. And if this is your primary vehicle, I would also avoid going with full EV.

I owned my 2021 VW ID.4 Pro for 1.5 year and traded it in recently, for a Tesla Model 3 RWD - mainly because of the better charging network, but can be neglected if you only plan on charging at home or work. I do have other vehicles as well if I was to do any actual long distance trip unless I want to adventure out and did it once with the ID.4 and never would I do it again, at least in a CCS EV. Have yet to try Tesla superchargers for road trip (up and down California).

 

[Nai3t]

Oh no! Any chance this is resuming soon? When and why did it pause?

It appears VW is ramping up to resume the 3.1 rollout (or I guess we should go back to calling it the 3.x rollout until clarified) which will incorporate the recall and of course the 12 volt battery upgrade.

Per VW it was paused for the recall and to prevent an additional dealership visit, but for all we know that was also a convenient excuse to pull back and retool the complex and buggy upgrade process.

FWIW ours is a two EV house and our '21 First Edition has been trouble free, no DCFC charging snafus, an all-around excellent vehicle that I'd buy again in a heartbeat.

 

[salant76]

@teddyh,

It is not just because I am looking to sell my 2021 ID.4 Pro AWD S (maybe a little 🤔) but I have been happy with the vehicle. It isn’t perfect (what car is?) and still is running the older 2.1. This was going to be my first vehicle with software updates. So not having it wasn’t a big deal to me.

As someone that had owned multiple Toyotas before my eGolf and then ID.4. VW have better ride quality, nicer seats and a quieter ride.

How far is your commute? Where are you located?

My issue with the ID.4 is it is an SUV and not a car.

If you are looking for a small SUV EV I would recommend it.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

This is tough question.
You own well designed Toyota vehicle....that has been improved over many decades and it is if I'm not wrong 4th generation hybrid technology.
If you have never owned EV i would suggest you go with less expensive EV like Bolt EV ..
. This is way less money to enter EV world.
My advice would be to rent multiple different EV vehicles for couple weeks each and with this time you will experience all the good and bad about EV ownership.....and hopefully if you still see EV as next vehicle.....choice to choose EV that fits your needs. Insurance is going to be more expensive on most EV..... not having ability to L2 charge is another problem that will need to be resolved if you decide to own EV. Charging at fast DC chargers are going to be expensive. Being early adopter of EV comes with things that you may regret in future, when more competition comes to the market.
I wish you good luck....

 

[null]

Having owned RAV4 (hybrid version) and knowing how terrible the current gen is I would still say keep your Prime if this is your only car.

 

[fireboy92k]

To answer your Reddit questions directly:

1. Tech and software: Other than the window buttons and the touch controls that are possibly the most polarizing part of the car, many of us have had no issues with it, even in 2.x state while others have nothing but problems. 2.x can be laggy at times, but most of us have gotten used to it. Apple CarPlay I would say works as well as it does in any car and the screen in that mode works just fine. The built-in Nav is not the best but it works. The radio is functional at best with lots of screen maneuvering even for simple things. Same for the HVAC controls. If you tend to be a set-and-forget then most of this won’t matter to you as the default HVAC is auto and you can toggle the seat heaters by double tapping the temp slider even in CarPlay mode. Personally, I’m in the no-problem camp. If you have a chance to drive one for a bit you should.
2. Driving: The ID.4 handles quite well and has a very tight turning radius. It’s true of all electrics that as battery charge goes down so does max performance. In reality in the ID this is almost never an issue in my experience other than at extremely low states of charge. Peak performance is only available at 100%, but that only matters if you are drag racing. In normal driving you probably will never notice. You should not routinely charge the battery to 100% for battery health. If you need that much range daily or it’s really cold a lot you are probably better off with your hybrid.
3. 2021 vs 2023: mostly minor. 2023 has: Newer software that will mostly come to the older car soon. The newer car has more sensors that enable auto parking, which is interesting but kinda a gimmick. They are also built in the US, have 2 battery suppliers that affect the charge characteristics some, a revised center console, etc. The 2023 has no open safety recalls like the 2021 does, though that hopefully will be corrected soon. And the new cars are eligible for the full tax credit assuming you qualify until battery guidance is published soon. The used car has the smaller credit assuming you qualify.
4. Reliability: I’m in the camp with no issues. It’s hard to gauge as boards like this tend to have complainer/issue bias. This one is hard to judge though and is subjective in some cases. My dealer visits have been fine. Your experience may be very different. Parts for any EV seem to be an issue. Consumer Reports likes very few VWs for reliability, but then I find most cars they like plain and boring. The 2023 should in theory have fewer issues as it’s many revs down the line from the early cars. Hard to say at this point if that's true.

As to other raised points. If you road trip a lot over a few hundred miles, Tesla may be the better bet just in terms of charger network, general uptime, etc. The Tesla and VW charge close enough that I think for many it’s a wash. If you road trip in a cold climate Tesla also has battery preconditioning assuming you use the in-car Nav to get you to your destination which the ID doesn’t. Personally, I’ve had no issues with CCS myself. If you charge mostly at home this is a moot point in many cases.

EDIT: I typed this on my phone last night, so just now going back and cleaning it up for readability and, you know, English... LOL

 

[Ev1st]

EV’s are changing very fast. Not sure buying old ID.4 model is worth it. But hey your money your choice. If it’s me I would never buy it with all the known/probable issues..

 

[teddyh]

Thank you so much for your responses. It has been tremendously helpful in making decisions. I want to provide some context and answer some questions as well.

How far is your commute?

I only travel about 10 miles a day, with occasional once-a-month trips of about 50 miles. I have been taking advantage of L2 charging whenever I can, but with my Prime only being able to take in 3.3kw, I found myself scheduling my day around the charging schedule. I want to be able to charge it up and have a few days of leeway if I have to go without charging.

Well designed Toyota vehicle....

I love my '21 Prime, but I had a few grudges.

It feels so outdated, and the vehicle coming with cloth seats and not even wireless carplay at the price I paid has increasingly been frustrating.
The wind noise at highway speeds have also been very loud for the quality I expect for the price.
Definitely durable and quality. I will miss the volume and climate knobs. But everything just felt too cheap.

new cars are eligible for the full tax credit assuming you qualify until battery guidance is published soon.

I won't be able to qualify for the tax credit (currently on student visa so I'm not legally allowed to make the income required to get the 7500), which is why I was considering used.

That said, I just swung by the dealership and the difference would be like $3700 to give up my 21 Prime, and get a 23 ID.4 with the credits and the trade in value, which seems like a deal that's hard to resist. Especially given that I won't have to deal with the recall, outdated software, and get 3 years EA. I'm thinking about getting a relative to register and transfer title after tax credit claim to pull this off. I'm sure if I negotiate on the "dealer doc fee" and other BS, I could get it a bit lower. Again, international student and can't finance (no social security) so they don't like budging on the price.

If you roadtrip a lot over a few hundreds miles

I usually drive for commute and don't plan on taking 500+ mile road trips. In the Boston metro area, so drives to Portland, ME, Manchester, NH (where my relatives live), or even Washington DC seem pretty seamless based on A Better Routeplanner. Maybe anyone in the NE area can chime in on this.

 

[Spin]

Sounds like a no brainer to trade the Prime and get a new ID.4 for $3700. Good luck with it if thats what you decide to do.

 

[fireboy92k]

I'm with @Spin on this one. If you can swing the $3700 difference and you decide you have to have the car, you can't go wrong with getting a new car that only you own. Full warranty, EA, etc. Heck, the EA privileges alone may be worth close to the $3700 depending on how long you keep the car.

For me, I find that I can get a weeks worth of 40'ish miles roundtrips to work and back on a single charge no issue. But I'm in Florida and cold weather isn't a large factor here. In a cold climate like Boston in the winter you should assume you'll get probably 50%-60% of the usual range. Maybe a little more if you have a garage, maybe a little less if it cold soaks sitting on the street or outside.

The biggest issue with 2 sales in the 'double' sales tax/registration fees. I don't know Mass. tax rules of course so make sure you talk to someone, or you could eat into the $7500 quick.

Also don't forget to call your insurance company ahead of time and talk through what a change in premium might look like if there is one.

I won't be able to qualify for the tax credit (currently on student visa so I'm not legally allowed to make the income required to get the 7500), which is why I was considering used.

That said, I just swung by the dealership and the difference would be like $3700 to give up my 21 Prime, and get a 23 ID.4 with the credits and the trade in value, which seems like a deal that's hard to resist. Especially given that I won't have to deal with the recall, outdated software, and get 3 years EA. I'm thinking about getting a relative to register and transfer title after tax credit claim to pull this off. I'm sure if I negotiate on the "dealer doc fee" and other BS, I could get it a bit lower. Again, international student and can't finance (no social security) so they don't like budging on the price.

I usually drive for commute and don't plan on taking 500+ mile road trips. In the Boston metro area, so drives to Portland, ME, Manchester, NH (where my relatives live), or even Washington DC seem pretty seamless based on A Better Routeplanner. Maybe anyone in the NE area can chime in on this.

 

[teddyh]

For me, I find that I can get a weeks worth of 40'ish miles roundtrips to work and back on a single charge no issue.

Even 2-3 days of driving on a single charge would be a-ok to me! Believe it or not, I have to charge my Prime like 3 times a day, and the commute from work to home is actually "garage near work with L1 to grocery store in front of my house with Volta," so even 2 days would be a big difference. I really can't stand it when the ICE turns on. Who knew my mind on electric driving would change that quick!

Also don't forget to call your insurance company ahead of time and talk through what a change in premium might look like if there is one.

Great tip, thank you.

 

[fireboy92k]

Oh I get it. Recently had to buy a second used car for work. I looked at all kinds of ICE cars, test drove a few, and if money was no option I'd still buy a racy Audi or Porsche in a heartbeat. But.... for a daily driver, everything else just didn't feel right anymore. So I paid more than I wanted to, but bought a used Chevy Bolt. It has about the same range as the ID4 AWD and I get about the same range/# trips out of it. And it costs me about $9 a week to 'fill up' at the charger in town when I can't have both it and the ID.4 plugged in to the slow charger at home. Someday I MAY spend the money to run 220 to the garage, but it's detached and it will not be a cheap proposition.

Who knew my mind on electric driving would change that quick!

 

[gorj]

I currently own a 2021 RAV4 Prime, and have owned it for about 6 months after buying it certified pre-owned. I have been considering switching to a used 2021 ID.4 Pro S AWD as I feel ready to fully switch to electric. I would be able to let go of my 2021 Rav4 Prime SE and switch to the 2021 ID.4 without paying extra. I asked on reddit to help me make my decision and I feel pretty confident.

Is this trade "worth it"? Am I missing something important by buying an older model of the ID.4? Based on research I've done I'm seeing that if my 2021 has version 3.1.0 as the software it should fix most of the software kinks from the 2021 model. Has the battery recall been addressed with this update as well?

Original post on reddit here: https://www.reddit.com/r/VWiD4Owners/comments/11r9465
Thank you so much for your help!

I have had an ID4 for two years and if you plan on plugging in at home or work most of the time an EV is a good choice. Personally, I think until the public charging infrastructure improves a plug in hybrid is a better choice. I have had unresolved issues with my ID4 for almost two years and will never purchase another VW product. As a matter of fact I am considering a 2023 Toyota Prius Prime when they become available.