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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

Deepl translation:
An optional heat pump installed in VW's ID.3 and ID.4 electric cars ensures energy-efficient heating of the interior. This means that less power is required from the battery. However, the technology does not achieve the promised range advantage of up to 30 percent at temperatures as low as -25 degrees Celsius. VW is therefore lowering the price, reports Bild.de and Auto Motor und Sport , among others . In addition, over 50,000 existing customers are compensated.

Compared to a vehicle with a combustion engine, an electric car does not generate enough waste heat from the drive components to heat the interior sufficiently. VW therefore offers a "highly efficient heat pump system" that compresses refrigerant under high pressure. The resulting heat is used to heat the cold air flowing through it. As a result, less energy from the battery is used for the high-voltage heating, and there is a range advantage over electric vehicles without a heat pump.

The 1275 euro expensive equipment significantly reduces the loss of range caused by the air conditioning - especially in winter, because it replaces the electrical heating element with its work, VW advertised on the Internet. In practice, however, the heat pump does not fully implement this.

VW ID.3 heat pump
VW's heat pump system ensures a lower range advantage than promised
Through “customer feedback and internal evaluations” it was found that the actual values deviated “by more than ten percent from the communicated value”, explained VW. On the one hand, this is due to the fact that the simulations before the market launch in 2016 had no real experience. In addition, the brand's new electric cars are much more efficient in everyday life than originally calculated and have thus more or less minimized the calculated range gain from the heat pump.

Efficiency is also heavily dependent on the driving profile, VW continues. The communication has therefore been adapted and in the meantime no indication of percentage range advantages has been given. VW does not want to make specific statements about the efficiency advantages of the heat pump. With a view to comparable systems, Auto Motor und Sport assumes 10 to 20 percent, depending on the driving profile.

In view of the new findings, VW will reduce the price of the heat pump to 990 euros from July 1, 2021. The 56,230 existing customers to date will also benefit from the price reduction and will receive a refund of 285 euros. The bottom line is a little more than 16 million euros in expenditure for the company.

According to information from Bild.d e, VW is working on making the heat pump as effective as promised by means of a software update. However, customers would still need a little patience for this. Both the ID.3 and the ID.4 can be updated "over-the-air" using the cellular network from summer onwards .
 

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The other point to note in here is that people's real world use and efficiency has been higher than the assumption the %benefit was claimed against. While VW will work to improve the software, they are getting out in front of a 'false advertising' claim they wouldn't be able to overcome.

It's interesting to start seeing much more real world refinement as opposed to trying to judge where to fall between wltp and epa
 

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ID.4 Pro S Moonstone Grey
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Good overall response from VW, very promising approach for their EVs. I would love to see their planned improvement list based on all the real world date they are able to collect!
 

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I thought the ID4s shipped to the IS did not have the heat pump and therefore, if true, would make this news irrelevant to US purchases?
 

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Good overall response from VW, very promising approach for their EVs.
How are you interpreting this as good behavior from VW? "Mis-communicating" to their customers, hardware that can't meet the claimed results, incoming software to lessen the impact of the (well-known) hardware shortcomings, and a fractional refund to customers is play by play from the same corporate Scandal Manual they followed for their diesels.

They knew it and they knew it for at least five years according to the article. They didn't just discover the fact that heat pumps merely move heat rather than generate it. They're slow, need to be run constantly for any appreciable heat gains, and don't perform well when there isn't enough latent heat in the air; in short, they aren't a good fit for frigid environments and even less so for short bursts (e.g., an EV commute). Everyone who knows how heat pumps operate have been pointing this out for years so it's inconceivable how VW's engineers didn't know it during design phase of their EVs. They should have known years before the 2015 implementation in their SEL trim eGolfs and certainly knew it once customers took delivery and compared advertised claims to real-world results. That coincides with the 2016 date the article mentions.

What this shows to me is they didn't learn the right lessons from their dieselgate scandal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
well, in this video they compare a drive between two ID.3's, with and without the heat pump:
Granted, they made it a bit artificial by cranking up the cabin heat quite high, and the drive longer than the average 30 minute commute, but there was a clear and noticeable difference.
 

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there was a clear and noticeable difference.
Disregarding all the talking and pointless charging differences, the UI calculated difference was 1.2kwh/100km. Idling, without climate control on and just the radio, my non-heat pump ID.4 draws .6 kwh/100km.

Traveling for a long time (>30 mins) in moderate climate (~40F) is roughly optimal conditions for a heat pump. Arguably, the heat pump would perform better in the North/Northeastern, rural US vs. Canada where they deployed it.

Anyone in the desert using heat pump for A/C or anyone using a heat pump for their pools already knows they aren't suitable for addressing extreme weather conditions and must be ran continuously. It would have been more interesting to me and more informative to show the efficiency differences at 10 mins, 30 mins, and then an hour. I'm also curious about when the cabin started to feel comfortable because I bet it was cold for at least the first 15 minutes of that drive...the driver certainly looked dressed for warmth :).

People in the US want to leave a perfectly controlled home, into a perfectly controlled vehicle, into a perfectly controlled office and then back again. We don't generally dress like we're walking around wintery Chicago when we're driving on the interstate :).
 

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VW ID.4 1st Max | Mangan Gray
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My id4 warmed fine in colder temps(32f) (no heatpump) within 5 mins. It's just the 9kw hit on my usage to warmup the batteries. Short 60mph commutes (30km) were like 250 wh/km. (400wh/mi(?)).

Good ol' days. See ya soon again
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Disregarding all the talking and pointless charging differences, the UI calculated difference was 1.2kwh/100km. Idling, without climate control on and just the radio, my non-heat pump ID.4 draws .6 kwh/100km.
yeah, you have a point. just did a quick calculation:
Lets assume 400 real world KMs (250 miles) for a full 77KWH charge, and the heatpump saving 1.2KWh/100KM.
In that case the heatpump saves 4*1.2-> 4.8KW. Let's make it 5 for easy of calculation.
That means that on a 100% charge the heatpump would save (400km/77kwh)*5KWH = ~25KM or ~16 miles.
So in winter it gives a 6% increase in range and thats even in optimal/artificial conditions.

Just for the fun of it. lets assume a commercial 30 cents per kwh, in that case you'd save (25KM/5.2km/kwh)*0.3 EUR= EUR 1.44 per full charge or 400KM/250M using the heatpump.
meaning that to make up for the 1000 euro cost, you'd need to drive at least (1000/1.44)*400 = 277.333KM or 173.300 Miles to break even on the cost of the unit.

wait..., did i calculate that correctly?
 

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My id4 warmed fine in colder temps(32f) (no heatpump) within 5 mins. It's just the 9kw hit on my usage to warmup the batteries. Short 60mph commutes (30km) were like 250 wh/km. (400wh/mi(?)).

Good ol' days. See ya soon again
My 1st Max with heat pump use about 7 kW on a 0C(32F) day pre-heating, was the same in -10C, and it was only running for 4-5 minutes before the cabin was nice and cozy. This power usage included heated windshield and rear window as well.
 
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