[lixtastic]

I got my ID.4 Pro S (RWD) in June. I work from home so I barely drive, but when I do it’s so much fun so I planned a 21hr drive time road trip!

I read that if you are planning on doing these kind of long haul trips, it’s ok to charge to 100%. I did that for the first time before I left my starting point and had a range showing of 267mi at 100%. I drove for hours and got down to 6% by the time I reached the next EA charge station. This time, when I charged to 100%, it only showed 220mi. I got worried but disregarded thinking maybe it would refresh or recalculate once I got on the road again. It didn’t. I charged to 100% again for the next leg… and got 215mi.

Long story short, it would appear I’ve somehow permanently lowered the capacity of my battery by charging to 100% just TWICE. My 80% charge is also relatively low. I’ve only ever used EA fast chargers, and the weather conditions have been pretty normal (70-85F).

Any insight? I’m going to be really upset because one of the things I was excited about was that estimated 260mi range in my beloved “Spaceship”. Thank you in advance!

 

[LieutenantLefse]

Don't worry, you have not permanently lowered your battery capacity.

The estimated range displayed is affectionately known as the Guess-O-Meter (GoM). It displayed 267 miles because your past driving was probably lower speed around town trips, where overall efficiency is highest. Freeway driving uses more energy (this is true of gas-powered cars too) and 220 sounds about right assuming you were cruising around 70-75mph.

 

[fireboy92k]

Yeah, you didn't say how far you actually went on that first leg from 100% to 6%, but I'm guessing it wasn't 267 miles.

The car will adjust based on your most recent history of driving, and all cars are less efficient at higher and higher speeds due to increased wind resistance. Even in your ICE car, the difference in range and efficiency at 70 vs 55 is like a drop of more than 50% on average. Your ICE gas tank just covered up the fact because it outlasted your 'butt in seat' meter most likely. You're unlikely to get more than about 2 1/2 to 3 hours at 'top highway speed' in the ID.4.

No need to charge to 100% at each stop either, unless you just want to use up the time. The battery charger MUCH slower from 80% to 100% than it does from 6% to 80%, especially on a DC fast charger that can pump out 150KW.

 

[lixtastic]

Don't worry, you have not permanently lowered your battery capacity.

The estimated range displayed is affectionately known as the Guess-O-Meter (GoM). It displayed 267 miles because your past driving was probably lower speed around town trips, where overall efficiency is highest. Freeway driving uses more energy (this is true of gas-powered cars too) and 220 sounds about right assuming you were cruising around 70-75mph.

Thank you for this explanation! It was just a huge and sudden difference from the previous number. I’m still learning and getting used to it but this is good to know. Thank you!

 

[lixtastic]

Yeah, you didn't say how far you actually went on that first leg from 100% to 6%, but I'm guessing it wasn't 267 miles.

The car will adjust based on your most recent history of driving, and all cars are less efficient at higher and higher speeds due to increased wind resistance. Even in your ICE car, the difference in range and efficiency at 70 vs 55 is like a drop of more than 50% on average. Your ICE gas tank just covered up the fact because it outlasted your 'butt in seat' meter most likely. You're unlikely to get more than about 2 1/2 to 3 hours at 'top highway speed' in the ID.4.

No need to charge to 100% at each stop either, unless you just want to use up the time. The battery charger MUCH slower from 80% to 100% than it does from 6% to 80%, especially on a DC fast charger that can pump out 150KW.

OK, I had no idea that it judges off of your driving history! That makes much more sense. And yes, there’s only so much time I ever want to spend in an adjacent Walmart, after reaching 80% charging goes painfully slow. Thank you so much for the explanation, it makes more sense now.

 

[Spin]

DC charging to 100% is more harmful to the battery than L2 charging to 100%. I try to only charge to 80% when DC charging.

 

[fireboy92k]

OK, I had no idea that it judges off of your driving history! That makes much more sense. And yes, there’s only so much time I ever want to spend in an adjacent Walmart, after reaching 80% charging goes painfully slow. Thank you so much for the explanation, it makes more sense now.

If you have some time on YouTube, look up Out Of Spec Motoring channel and watch Kyle drive the ID.4 on a couple of long-term road trips from places like Jacksonville, Florida to Fort Collins, Colorado.

Incredibly enlightening to see him 'charger hop'. I think he does at least one other long term trip as well, maybe more.

There are others too, like Bjorn Nyland, but Kyle is a great start.

 

[Don]

DC charging to 100% is more harmful to the battery than L2 charging to 100%. I try to only charge to 80% when DC charging.

That's certainly true, so on long trips, charge to whatever miles will get you to the next charging station and add 10% or so just for good measure

The same is true for home charging too - Charge to what you need. 80% is the recommended everyday max, but if 60% will get you where you need to go and back home, there's no real need to charge to 80%. Charge as needed, plus a little extra and your battery will love you for it

Don

 

[Ciscovet]

Thank you for this explanation! It was just a huge and sudden difference from the previous number. I’m still learning and getting used to it but this is good to know. Thank you!

I drive 6 miles a day and my range shows as 250m @ 80%

 

[tothemoon]

When we picked our car up last week, we drove it around for a few miles and ended up using it to shuttle the kids to school, sports, etc. by the end of the week, it showed that a pretty full charge (90%) was going to give us over 300 miles. We then went on a trip for the long weekend and it now gives us about 250 at 80% charge.

 

[alpard78]

Thank you for this explanation! It was just a huge and sudden difference from the previous number. I’m still learning and getting used to it but this is good to know. Thank you!

Our cars are backwards from gas cars. In the city and constant breaking we get a lot of energy back because the car uses the breaking to recharge a little. In the highway you are constantly putting out energy but not getting any back so it spends more, the range will drop.
I saw a couple of tests where the people went from 100% to 0% at 70mph in a highway loop. They both got around 230 miles if I remember well so your numbers sound right.

 

[d287]

I’ve seen the same behavior- but rest assured after you putter around home for a few days it will go back up … welcome to the future, I guess ;-)

 

[JimmyVW]

Our cars are backwards from gas cars. In the city and constant breaking we get a lot of energy back because the car uses the breaking to recharge a little. In the highway you are constantly putting out energy but not getting any back so it spends more, the range will drop.
I saw a couple of tests where the people went from 100% to 0% at 70mph in a highway loop. They both got around 230 miles if I remember well so your numbers sound right.

And just as with gas powered cars, we have less range in the winter. e.g. My previous diesel typically had 20% less range in winter. The range of an EV will be around 20 to 30% less in winter / on cold days, depending on conditions and driven distance (many short rides in winter will cost way more range than longer ones, due to constant battery conditioning at the start of the trip)
This becomes way more noticeable now, because the GOM shows the expected range in stead of battery percentage. Additionally due to the lower overall range of an ev vs a gas car, the impact of having to heat the interior, seats and especially battery will be significant.

It amuses me a bit that many implicitly assume that their car can always drive the same distance regardless of environment (temperature, rain, climate control usage, etc) and usage type (long vs short rides, sporty vs eco style driving, etc)
in that aspect an EV adheres to the same law of physcis as a normal gass guzzler.
(yet i'm sure we'll get a few dozen more topics here to complain about range changes, when winter really kicks in.)

 

[Evillen]

I got my ID.4 Pro S (RWD) in June. I work from home so I barely drive, but when I do it’s so much fun so I planned a 21hr drive time road trip!

I read that if you are planning on doing these kind of long haul trips, it’s ok to charge to 100%. I did that for the first time before I left my starting point and had a range showing of 267mi at 100%. I drove for hours and got down to 6% by the time I reached the next EA charge station. This time, when I charged to 100%, it only showed 220mi. I got worried but disregarded thinking maybe it would refresh or recalculate once I got on the road again. It didn’t. I charged to 100% again for the next leg… and got 215mi.

Long story short, it would appear I’ve somehow permanently lowered the capacity of my battery by charging to 100% just TWICE. My 80% charge is also relatively low. I’ve only ever used EA fast chargers, and the weather conditions have been pretty normal (70-85F).

Any insight? I’m going to be really upset because one of the things I was excited about was that estimated 260mi range in my beloved “Spaceship”. Thank you in advance!

View attachment 6356

I actually just posted something about this yesterday thinking I was in the same boat as you and that I had already damaged the total capacity of the battery. Nope. Think about it similar to a gasoline car and how they'll estimate the milage you have left before needing to fill up. It bases off of how you're drive, and that's going to be impacted by things like temperature, conditions, hills etc. The further you drive and especially the faster you go the less range it'll ultimately guess.

I was under the impression that when I charged up, the percentage should be equivalent to the estimated milage, so in this case if the estimated milage is 250, at an 80% charge should net you 200 miles worth of range. Not the case. It had always done that for me prior to yesterday's trip and when I would charge up for a longer trip to 100% my range would be at, or above the estimated 250 miles. Yesterday it did not for the first time.

I wouldn't be all to concerned about it! 😄

 

[mochalatte]

This post from a couple of months ago links to a YouTube that does a great job explaining why EVs seem to be more range-sensitive than gas cars. It boils down to the fact that ICE cars generate so much waste heat that it mostly hides from us the various things that impact range. Just chalk it up to something to get used to as we transition to EVs, but that's a small price to pay for all the benefits of EVs.

 

[ChristophW]

And while you research more around the range and Gues-O-Meter, note what people report regarding long uphill drives, and then down the other side, e.g. over the continental divide. It can truly scare people the first time around when their predicted range "shrinks" to well below the distance to the next charging station on the uphill stretch (the car assuming you will continue uphill indefinitely), only to "regain range" downhill. Sort of fun, really, once you are used to it.

 

[JimMacNair]

I have had my car for about 1.5 months now and have been learning as I go. One recent concern from Saturday was my range now that the temperature is lower (figure in the 30s F). I drove home from my daughter's house, having charged at an EA charger near her. I used the vehicle display to look at the miles per KWH, which I assume is more accurate than the guess-o-meter. If you look at my car using the long term tab I see 3.1 miles/KWH, which makes sense. I have AWD, so a bit less than RWD. But on the trip home the since last charge tab showed 2.6 miles/KWH. I was on a highway (65 MPH speed limit, I never exceeded 68 MPH) and I had the climate control set to auto (72 degrees, so the inside of the car was comfortable). I have the car set to ECO mode and always use B mode (regenerative braking) rather than D mode. Still, the 2.6 represents a large drop from the 3.1 I was getting in moderate temperature. I wonder what I will be seeing when I get to colder temperatures. This is very significant for me as my daughter is about 100 miles away and it is the difference between being able to do the round trip without charging versus being completely reliant on the EA charger near where she lives.

 

[d287]

I have had my car for about 1.5 months now and have been learning as I go. One recent concern from Saturday was my range now that the temperature is lower (figure in the 30s F). I drove home from my daughter's house, having charged at an EA charger near her. I used the vehicle display to look at the miles per KWH, which I assume is more accurate than the guess-o-meter. If you look at my car using the long term tab I see 3.1 miles/KWH, which makes sense. I have AWD, so a bit less than RWD. But on the trip home the since last charge tab showed 2.6 miles/KWH. I was on a highway (65 MPH speed limit, I never exceeded 68 MPH) and I had the climate control set to auto (72 degrees, so the inside of the car was comfortable). I have the car set to ECO mode and always use B mode (regenerative braking) rather than D mode. Still, the 2.6 represents a large drop from the 3.1 I was getting in moderate temperature. I wonder what I will be seeing when I get to colder temperatures. This is very significant for me as my daughter is about 100 miles away and it is the difference between being able to do the round trip without charging versus being completely reliant on the EA charger near where she lives.

You will see better numbers using D on the highways according to several tests… we have a 200 mile trip to my parents, so we installed a EVSE in their garage (they got a state rebate, tax credit, and I paid the for rest). I can do the 200 miles in the warmer weather no problems if I take it easy like you were… haven’t tried in the winter yet