[D3adk]

I’m in the US and debating on ordering an ID.4 Pro S AWD (without gradient)… And I’m just so shocked at how terrible the RWD versions are leasing at the moment, even including the $7500 tax credit. $500 to $600 per month with minimal money down for 15k miles per year… could lease an Audi Q5e for that price.

By fall is it expected that lease prices will be better? I wonder if residuals are just so low because these early models are RWD?

Ideally I want to finance the ID.4 because of the annual miles I drive, but apparently you don’t get the $7500 up front at the point of sale if you finance, and I don’t have the full tax liability to qualify for the full credit anyway. If I financed I’d probably put $20k down, but still it would feel like I’m losing $7500 by financing instead of leasing.

Is it possible to lease, get tax credit, then after 3 to 6 months later buy out the lease early?

 

[fiehlsport]

Yup, poor residuals. 48-49% if I remember correctly. You should be able to buyout your lease at any time. A 15K lease will definitely be high though. Best I could do on a 12K lease was mid-400s with zero down, taxes/fees up front. And that was with a 2K NY state incentive off the cap cost, and $1500 off MSRP. Ended up financing it and will get a nice tax return next year.

 

[Froggy]

A few things to think of. First there is going to be a fair amount of inflation in 2021 and probably 2022(don't want to discuss why on this forum). Second that will lead to higher interest rates. Third until supply catches up with demand there won't be any deals.
Now a couple of suggestions that may or may not apply. If you are married you can file taxes jointly and get more of the tax credit. If you have any tax deferred savings you might be able to take some out early, boost your taxible income and get more back. You could get some gig work on the side and boost your taxable income.
Last a question. Did you figure the value of your trade in into the equation?

 

[DitchingTheTiguanLol]

What I don't get from people saying the residual is the reason they don't lease, is that residual affects buying AS WELL.
Unless the down payment is high, you'll be in negative equity for a long time. GAP insurance or take a risk? No thanks.

 

[DitchingTheTiguanLol]

I’m in the US and debating on ordering an ID.4 Pro S AWD (without gradient)… And I’m just so shocked at how terrible the RWD versions are leasing at the moment, even including the $7500 tax credit. $500 to $600 per month with minimal money down for 15k miles per year… could lease an Audi Q5e for that price.

By fall is it expected that lease prices will be better? I wonder if residuals are just so low because these early models are RWD?

Ideally I want to finance the ID.4 because of the annual miles I drive, but apparently you don’t get the $7500 up front at the point of sale if you finance, and I don’t have the full tax liability to qualify for the full credit anyway. If I financed I’d probably put $20k down, but still it would feel like I’m losing $7500 by financing instead of leasing.

Is it possible to lease, get tax credit, then after 3 to 6 months later buy out the lease early?

I offered, for a 36/10 lease, $12 dollars per MSRP thousand. So essentially $480 equivalent dollars per month for a $41k car.
My offer isn't working from the standpoint of getting the vehicle, but it IS working from the standpoint of not paying more than I've ever had to before, even when I leased another high-demand car previously. (Stinger GT).

 

[ExCivilian]

You can buy your lease out without any fuss at all. I assume you can do it the first day but you'd want to at least wait a month because that first month is already paid in your drive-off costs (which would be paid with the fed credit and not out of pocket). I generated my lease pay-off last week after a month of ownership and am deciding whether I'm going to pay it off this week or send in my first (2nd) payment.

 

[brantarthur]

Agree, so many new models coming out this year (ID.4, Ioniq 5, EV6) and I think they're all going to be expensive leases due to demand and the chip shortage. The 36-month lease quote I just received here in Northern California (Santa Rosa) is for a ID.4 Pro RWD:

• $519 est. monthly, 10k miles, $2500 down (including reservation fee)
• $531 est. monthly, 12k miles, $2500 down (including reservation fee)

It's definitely more than what I was expecting, but not sure there's anything else I can do. Need to make a decision by Sunday and test drive it tomorrow!

 

[ExCivilian]

That's $20/month more expensive than my First Edition lease so I'd keep hammering on that.

 

[DitchingTheTiguanLol]

Agree, so many new models coming out this year (ID.4, Ioniq 5, EV6) and I think they're all going to be expensive leases due to demand and the chip shortage. The 36-month lease quote I just received here in Northern California (Santa Rosa) is for a ID.4 Pro RWD:

• $519 est. monthly, 10k miles, $2500 down (including reservation fee)
• $531 est. monthly, 12k miles, $2500 down (including reservation fee)

It's definitely more than what I was expecting, but not sure there's anything else I can do. Need to make a decision by Sunday and test drive it tomorrow!

Does that include sales tax ?

 

[brantarthur]

Does that include sales tax ?

Yes, tax and registration. I think their lease down is requiring another $1000 down compared to what's on vw.com

 

[DitchingTheTiguanLol]

Yes, tax and registration. I think their lease down is requiring another $1000 down compared to what's on vw.com

I'm thinking you mean 'due at signing", not "down", right ?

 

[DitchingTheTiguanLol]

• $531 est. monthly, 12k miles, $2500 down (including reservation fee)

$12.90 per every thousand of MSRP assuming MSRP is 41k. That's high by itself and I can't even fathom what it would be without the credits.

 

[brantarthur]

$12.90 per every thousand of MSRP assuming MSRP is 41k. That's high by itself and I can't even fathom what it would be without the credits.

Yes, you might be right on "due at signing." I just went back and forth with them some more and had to clarify whether the quote was through VW Credit. They responded say, "Yes if you qualify we can go through VW Credit." So I assume they were proposing something outside VW Credit that was more advantageous for them. Sigh... looking forward to tomorrow when I can sit down with their "ID4 Leasing Guru."

 

[ExCivilian]

Have the leasehakr calculation pulled up on your phone and print off my lease pages for your review so you can double/triple check everything they throw at you before signing.

 

[DitchingTheTiguanLol]

Yes, you might be right on "due at signing." I just went back and forth with them some more and had to clarify whether the quote was through VW Credit. They responded say, "Yes if you qualify we can go through VW Credit." So I assume they were proposing something outside VW Credit that was more advantageous for them. Sigh... looking forward to tomorrow when I can sit down with their "ID4 Leasing Guru."

I'm in a similar situation. Guy wants me to drive there; yet I've already leased two other vehicles from there and both were dealt over the phone. I'm not budging. And with this car being in low supply, looks like this'll take a while. LOL.

I proposed $12 dollars per thousand. Crickets.

 

[DitchingTheTiguanLol]

Have the leasehakr calculation pulled up on your phone and print off my lease pages for your review so you can double/triple check everything they throw at you before signing.

When I saw an actual lease write up ( I think it was yours actually ), lol, the RENT CHARGE made it confusing to reverse-calculate a money factor.
I wasn't sure if they were adding up the cap cost to the residual value and then multiplying by mf.

 

[ExCivilian]

OK, I specifically chose law in order to avoid teaching others math but here goes:

If
Rent Charge = (Net Capitalized Cost + Residual) × Money Factor

Then (I believe)
Money Factor / Rent Charge = 1 / (Net Capitalized Cost + Residual)

I don't have my lease details in front of me but check my formula with the numbers from it. MF should be .00143 for the First Edition. I'm not sure what it is for other trims.

Once you get all the details lined up and verified, clarify that you will be putting $0 money down and paying $0 dollars in drive-off fees. If you're worried about the higher payments place the $2-3K in a bank account and draw off it each month.

 

[DitchingTheTiguanLol]

OK, I specifically chose law in order to avoid teaching others math but here goes:

If
Rent Charge = (Net Capitalized Cost + Residual) × Money Factor

Then (I believe)
Money Factor / Rent Charge = 1 / (Net Capitalized Cost + Residual)

I don't have my lease details in front of me but check my formula with the numbers from it. MF should be .00143 for the First Edition. I'm not sure what it is for other trims.

Once you get all the details lined up and verified, clarify that you will be putting $0 money down and paying $0 dollars in drive-off fees. If you're worried about the higher payments place the $2-3K in a bank account and draw off it each month.

Yes so that formula calculates MONTHLY rent charge, so isolating mf we have:

Money Factor = Rent Charge / (Net Capitalized Cost + Residual)

Thanks. I can't recall what I couldn't discern from the lease write up.
I think it's that they don't actually call Net Cap or Residual as is without other junk buried in it, so I didn't know if I could use those lines without MORE MATH. Lol.

So plugging these guessed at numbers....

Dividing the total rent charge of 3128 by 36, we get monthly rent charge of 86.89.
MF = 86.89 / ( 38.6k + 22.1k ) = .0014

Yup, that's close enough to .00143 given that I rounded off those "k"s.

 

[Hdkeith]

I think lease rates are so high because basically VW is giving you the tax credit up front and they want to make some money in that vs. handing you the full discount. I have an AWD on order and if the feedback is better on bugs and quirks I may buy it up front.
And while you can buy it early in the lease that depends on your state taxes as to whether you are throwing money away. Here in GA when you lease they add the transaction tax into the cost of the lease. That tax is based on the payments over the duration of the lease. If you buy right away you do or get any credit for those taxes and then pay taxes on the purchase of the car. Sill may work out vs. all the costs in the lease, but only you can decide that

 

[ExCivilian]

While true it's going to be based on how each state calculates use taxes, in a situation like you described it should be that the taxes on an after-lease purchase are only on the residual since the other "half" is baked into the lease payments.

Of course, in CA, DMV loves to double/triple/etc. tax drivers so it could be difficult to navigate.