Would be interesting to see the number for the Bridgestone Alenza all season tires.

 

I couldn't find them anywhere but bridgestone says they are low RR. I did find the Kumho Crugen HP71, its an OE summer tire too, with good RR of 6.59. But the review also said:

• Relatively long dry braking distance and low handling speed.
• Long wet braking distance and poor handling.
• Bad aquaplaning resistance.
• Low comfort.
• Good rolling resistance.

Seems similar to the Alenza: bad performance on everything except good RR, and low price.

Kumho Crugen HP71 Test, Review & Ratings in 2024 | AllTyreTests.com

Kumho Crugen HP71 is a Premium Touring Summer tire with symmetrical tread pattern, designed for SUV and 4×4. Key performance The tire’s rating based on its performance in tests. Kumho Crugen HP71 Tests 2021 Teknikens Värld (235/55 R18) In 2021 experts of the Swedish Teknikens Varld have tested...

alltyretests.com

I also saw that the best Nokian the Hakka R5 was really close to the X-ice Snow on RR and all other performance metrics. And saw that the nokian models vary hugely in RR, similar to Michelin. So we can't generalize about brands and have to compare exact tire models.

Edit: I also found the popular Bridgestone Blizzak DM-V3 that we get in the US are 7.5% worse RR than the X-ice snow. I have had before, with great winter traction, and didn't like that once they wear down just a little they lose most of the ice/snow grip since the special tread compound is shallow. So I expect the X-ice to last much longer since more of the grippy tread life.

 

Hmm this throws a little wrench in my plan to go with quadtrac pro next.... maybe they'll bring the EV version to US by the time I'm in the market

 

They already replaced it with Vredestein Quatrac Pro+ that is a much better: 7.0 on latest tests which is good and close to the X-ice. Its great to see more brands paying attention to RR now. Note they are all season and not rated winter tires, on snow handling they got 98.1 compared to X-ice at 25% better 74.01 time.

Vredestein Quatrac Pro+ Tests, Review & Ratings - Is It Good All Season Tire? | AllTyreTests.com

Vredestein Quatrac Pro Plus is an Ultra High Performance All Season tire with asymmetrical tread pattern, designed for Passenger cars and SUV. The tire replaced the Vredestein Quatrac Pro. Key performance Vredestein Quatrac Pro+ Tests 2023 Auto Bild (235/65 R17) In 2023 experts of the German...

alltyretests.com

 

Also would be interested in studded vs unstudded winter tires. I'm leaning now towards studs next time around. There are tons of videos about how studs get you worse performance on anything other than ice, but I don't really see why they would make that much difference to the same tire without studs. Maybe studded tires are better now than they were even only a few years ago?

Hard to tell because when they look at studded tires, suddenly the rolling resistance metric is changed to l/100 km!

 

I'm leaning now towards studs next time around.

I think its that the new tread compounds like X-ice make them better than older style with studs. I would be concerned about the noise with studs, since my EV is so quiet with the X-ice.

 

I do love Michelin and they are my favorite brand for all my cars.

 

Edit: I also found the popular Bridgestone Blizzak DM-V3 that we get in the US are 7.5% worse RR than the X-ice snow.

We get the DM-V2 in North America

 

Ouch, you are correct. Those are horrible RR at 17.35 kg/t in the 20" size and 9.25 kg/t in the 17" size - Beware!

Bridgestone Blizzak DM-V2 Tests, Review & Ratings | AllTyreTests.com

Bridgestone Blizzak DM-V2 detailed overview ✓Real test results ✓Key performance rating ✓Comparison with competitors ✓Pros & Cons

alltyretests.com

 

Apparently the size and speed rating of a given tire affects rolling resistance significantly as well. I was looking at CrossClimate 2 ratings, found this site.

Michelin CrossClimate 2

Michelin CrossClimate 2 excels in all conditions, balancing summer & winter performance. Tops Tire Rack (9.1/10) & Consumer Reports (74/100).

toptirereview.com

The 235/60R18 107H config earned an A rating in rolling resistance, where many other configs earned a B/C or D rating. I ordered a square setup of Enkei XM-6 18” wheels with that config of CC2 tires, will see how they do in a couple weeks when they show up.

 

Thanks, for posting it @SunWizard

 

Another complicating factor is the actual summer tread life of a winter tire. Everybody says "they wear out really fast in the hot weather" but then you look and there is no tire wear number. Maybe it is better to just run winter tires all year.

• Saves cost of second set of wheels
• Saves cost of storing them
• Saves cost of switching back and forth
• By replacing the tires every other year, you have newer winter tires instead of having them six years old and still with good tread depth remaining
• By replacing them every other year, you have the latest winter tire design

Downside is noise and worse performance in the summer.

 

This makes @Huey52 very happy.

 

Downside is noise and worse performance in the summer.

My X-ice tires are very quiet, and more quiet than the Bridgestone Alenza stock tires with only 6400 miles they replaced. And they are great performance, handling better than the Alenzas and only a small hit to range. I have gone back and forth over the years and ran winter tires all year with no problems, and it does save enough cost and hassle of switching that I still debate myself about having a 2nd set. I have no clear winner in those debates, since it mostly depends on how long I plan to keep the car, which is a big unknown during early ownership.

 

Also COVID dramatically reduced miles driven, at least in our case, so in our garage now we have several good sets of both summer and winter tires that are all aging out.

 

Its that time when the questions about winter tires appear. This year I found some good tests of rolling resistance (RR) between many winter tire choices. To compare the effect of the kg/t RR numbers below, there are multiple tests I have linked in other threads showing that the popular Michelin cross climate 2s gave 10-13% less range than stock and they measure 7.9kg/t RR. There are many tires that are even worse, likely since most people with ICE cars don't even care about or look at RR. The Continental WinterContact TS870P is the best I found at 6.49, I wonder if we can get them in the US? I bought Michelin X Ice Snow after much research since they are rated best for ice braking, and decent for loose snow, and they have been great through last winter. Testing from www.tyrereviews.com and www.alltyretests.com, too bad they are UK based and I can't find any US based testers who report RR numbers:

Unfortunately (oddly), www.tyrereviews.com has a US partner site Tire reviews, tests and ratings - Tire Reviews and Tests, but it does not list rolling resistance on it's US based tests. For example: all season test. :-(

 

sometimes I wonder if these cars need winter tires - this is about 1000lb heavier than my LEAF and I thought the LEAF was a beast in the MN winter

 

To play devil's advocate, I concur with this idea.

I grew up in upstate NY in the 70s and went back and forth through the Adirondacks to college and skiing in the winter. Then, I lived in MN for 4 years and have been in NE for almost 40 years. When radial, all-season tires came out in about 1979, I stopped putting on snow tires. I have driven in some pretty bad storms without snow tires on rwd and fwd drive cars without ABS or traction control. I feel pretty confident that an AWD ID.4 with ABS and traction control will be fine without snows.

While some people really need them for back roads, steep driveways, or what have you, most do not. I get that they are better for both traction and cold temps. However, ask yourself what percentage of the time you really need them. Most of the time, roads will be dry and clear. During storms, just wait a few hours for the sand, salt, and plows to do their job. Do you really want to be out in a storm anyway? If the traffic is jammed up, you are not going anywhere regardless of your tires. For the far, far greater percentage of time when you are driving on roads that do not have snow or ice between November and April, snow tires would be suboptimal in terms of sound, feel, and probably handling, not to mention the winter wheels that you might have to use that could be a different size.

It seems like too many people prepare for the absolute worst case scenario and want or set up vehicles as such. Is there an analogy here to ICE drives and range anxiety?

OK, I am ready to be jumped on!

 

Don't take the Bridgestone Alenzas on any amount of snow or ice. That is crazy dangerous as I slid backwards down multiple hills I could not climb with my AWD and Alenzas. Good winter tires is what it takes for my CO hills, and mine is now a beast.

 

I have the continental and RWD 😨 - will have to see when the flakes start to fly - don't have much left here in the twin cities

the continental say they All Season

 

I found more good information about the EU tyre label number. A tyre with a rolling resistance coefficient of <6.6 kg/t receives the Label-Class A. Up to 7.7 kg/t -Class B, then to 9.1 class C. In tests of 235/55r19 rolling resistance on a Tesla model S, each increase of 1kg/t between 6-9 changed the range by 4%. For example changing from a 9 to 6 increased range by 12% and 54km. From the interesting Continental academy pdf: Electric Vehicles and their Impact on Tyres

 

Well, that was an interesting rabbit hole.

I understand why they talk about the impact of rolling resistance on WLTP range. But WLTP range numbers seem... optimistic. I'd guess because they run the test at pretty low speeds - the test covers 23kms in 30 mins, so an average of ~47 kph (~29 mph). And I also understand that they want to put numbers on the tyre that reflect typical use - urban + suburban.
That said, I'm never lacking for chargers around town (no range anxiety). What I'm curious about is what impact does lowering rolling resistance have at highway speeds. I'm guessing drag will have a much great impact on range once you're over 100 kph (~65 mph). Does that reduce the impact of reducing rolling resistance by 1 kg/t to ~1%? If so, I'd gladly trade a little higher RR for improved wet handling. It's not often I pull into a charger with less than 10%. I'm not saying I want to go from 6 kg/t to 9 kg/t, but I'd go from 6.5 to 7.5.

Side note: I wish the EPREL database had some kind of dedup function. There were 169k+ tyres in the database, and I had not selected the [Include Out of Production Tyres] box. Some tyres looked identical - like the two Pirellis below. I inferred from the Tyre Identifier that they were tested sequentially which would seem to indicate that they aren't some minor revision. If the site is intended for consumers, and there are no meaningful differences, then please remove the clutter. I also wish they published the kg/t data somewhere - maybe on the details page. Still a great reference site.

 

Also this from ETRMA.

 

Thanks, reading that lead me to find the huge EU tyre database! Searchable here to see RR, noise, wet grip and other label data for any brand/ model/ size:

EPREL Public website

eprel.ec.europa.eu

 

sometimes I wonder if these cars need winter tires - this is about 1000lb heavier than my LEAF and I thought the LEAF was a beast in the MN winter

All vehicles need dedicated Winter tires if you expect to competently/confidently drive in anything more than very light/shallow snow. A/S tires are far better now, but still not the capabilities of a true Winter tire.

AWD is certainly superior to RWD in getting you going, provided you've well addressed "where the rubber meets the road."

 

Well, that was an interesting rabbit hole.

Yes I have been digging in that EU database, its a jackpot of info, but you have to be very exact what you search. For example, the Pirelli Scorpion all season you posted is not the same as the OE Pirelli Scorpion Zero A/S. I put the OE and common winter tires in the US into a spreadsheet for comparison. This showed we cannot generalize even within a tire model the RR varies with size, and it blows the story from many reviewers that 18" is better RR than 20". And the Michelin CC2 are not bad RR in our sizes, and the X-ice snow are indeed quieter than OE and any winter tires. Squaring all 4 with the X-ice you get better RR with the 235/55R19 than any winter tires (this is what I did.) You have to look at the exact size within the same tire model, so I did this RR chart:

1	Tire Model	235/55R19	255/50R19	235/50R20	255/45R20	235/60R18	Noise	Wet grip	Load 19	Load 20
2	BRIDGESTONE ALENZA SPORT A/S	B	A	B	B		71,72	B	105T-107T	104T-105T
3	KUMHO PS71	A	B	B	B	A	72	B-C	105V	105T
4	PIRELLI SCORPION ZERO A/S	B	B	B	B		70	C	105V-107H	104W-105W
5
6	MICHELIN X-ICE SNOW SUV	B	C	C	C	C	69	E	105H-107H	104T-105T
7	MICHELIN CROSSCLIMATE 2 SUV	B			B	B	72	C	105V	105V
8	BRIDGESTONE BLIZZAK DM-V3	E	E	E		E	72,73	E	105T-107T	104T
9	BRIDGESTONE BLIZZAK DM-V2	E	E			E	72	E	105T-107T
10	PIRELLI SCORPION WINTER	C	C	D	C	C	72	C	105V-107V	104V-105V
11	FALKEN WILDPEAK A/T AT3WA	D					71	C	105H
12	Continental VikingContact 7	C	C	C	C	C	72	D	105T	104T
13
14	Vredestein Quatrac Pro EV	B	C	B	B	B	70,71	B	105V
15	Vredestein Wintrac Pro	C	C		C	C	72,73	B	105V

 

All vehicles need dedicated Winter tires if you expect to competently/confidently drive in anything more than very light/shallow snow.

Your tires are the only four parts of your vehicle that touch the ground. Never skimp on tires.

Especially in the snow, when the result of skimping can be zero parts of your vehicle touching the ground.

 

Last winter I installed a set of Cross Climate tires and they were the best traction winter tire I have ever owned. Living in Minnesota, we have our share of winter driving and typically do not change tires for the seasons. Studded tires are never used, they are illegal.

 

Everyone is going to have their own perspective, which is wonderful and helps to foster learning. Here is mine:

I’ve lived in upstate NY my entire life. In college I had an AWD with Blizzaks and did insane things in the snow. After school, I had a FWD sedan for a few years with all season tires and got stuck in the type of snow you encounter in our city during snow storms when you have to go to work. My next car was an AWD A4 that came with Pirelli all seasons with decent tread life. That first winter I could not keep the car on the road well with the lightest of snow. I scratched the Blizzak itch and thereby occasionally scratched the insane things in the snow itch (after all, older <> more mature). Then I got the ID.4 AWD. Did not enjoy driving it in the light snows I encountered with the stock Alenzas.

I CAN’T WAIT to put my new (to me) Blizzaks on. I wish this car came with a handbrake.

In my experience, the compounds used in snow tires stay much more pliable and grippy when it gets cold, whereas all seasons turn to hockey pucks. As it turns out, not every square inch of pavement one will encounter will be perfectly groomed in January. I want to take my chances with the right tool for the job, while my all seasons are resting in the garage and lasting longer.

 

I wish this car came with a handbrake.

That's for sure.

 

The AWD system is slightly nicer when taking off but for stopping it is useless

Like Mr Clarkson said. Speed don't kill. Stopping abruptly does.

I am going to wing it this season, if it ends up being a nightmare I would probably do the goodyear whether ready, had them on our old Honda and they were great. 3mnt peak, sets nicely between all seasons and winter tires

 

I'm in you're camp. Everybody in Colorado wants AWD and studded tires because they are for sure going to make it up to Steamboat this winter to go skiing. I drove around Colorado and Massachusetts and all points between for decades in various 2WD cars with bias ply tires and only got stuck one time. That was in a gently sloping parking lot covered with ice that my 1967 bus could not deal with--and even then I eventually got out.

On the other hand, I am for sure going to make it up to Ouray this winter to see the ice climbing, so I need an AWD ID. Buzz with Nokian Hakkapeliitta 10 studded tires, and I need it right now!

Just because we did it way back when (as cited not much choice) doesn't mean it's the current best practice.

After all, we also didn't have seatbelts, child car seats, bicycle/ski helmets, and walked uphill both ways to school in the snow. 😆

 

and walked uphill both ways to school in the snow. 😆

… in our bare feet against the wind

 

Not by me. I'm on my 51st year on the icy Maine Coast, at the end of a ¼-mile of a climbing double-dogleg gravel drive, and we haven't bothered with snow tires since we needed Bridgestone Blizzaks to convert a Saturn SL2 from a skateboard into a drivable car. Everything else has rolled year-round on the best all-seasons we could find. That being said, my wife teaches, and if the school busses aren't rolling, neither are we. But in snow country there are few employers that don't cut employees some slack in bad weather.

I too find modern-best A/S tires just fine for my Winter driving. But I too can pick my snow days. If I had to again daily commute regardless of wx I'd be back to dedicated Winter rims/tires.

And again there's no argument that AWD gets you going better than RWD, but is no better at stopping.