Hi, I've been lurking here and got some of my (admittedly quirky) questions answered already, but thought I'd ask about my biggest and most comprehensive fear point blank.
What's the WORST range you got from 80% charge on an ID Pro 4wd? I mean in the cold, with the family in the car, AC on and luggage hanging off of it? Has anyone seen range reduction to LESS than 140mi range from 80%?
We are a single car family of 3 and while I'm super excited to try my (waiting on the lot) VW ID4 Pro 4WD, I'm afraid of the range 'issue'... Weekday commute is not an issue. On the weekends however weekends we hike and bike, so the car is often carrying 3 people (sometimes with a bike rack on the rear), but in 97% of cases never more than 70mi from our house... We do take 2-3 long trips per year, but these are usually along the highway where fast charge infrastructure exists (and for the one that is not along the corridor, I'm prepared to 'work around', as long as it is once or twice per year). We do live in Canada (cold in the winter), but the Canadian model has a heat pump, which I understand is better for cold driving... I also know that I can charge to 100% occasionally, but let's be honest... I'm a bit forgetful and know that at some point I may forget to change the charge level to 100% before a long trip, so this is why 80% is the benchmark.
Really, to make this decision I need your help to know are there any circumstances where I would get less than 140mi on a vehicle that is EPA rated for 255mi (410 km) or 205mi if charging to 80%?
Thank you in advance, I really appreciate any real-world feedback you can share (and I'm sure it will help others make the right decision some day as well)...
First Edition RWD driver. Most anxiety-inducing moment was a trip through Utah in single digit temps. Thought I'd make it to a charger 120mi away, but thanks to the cold, it got a little too close. I rolled in at about 7%.
Other than that, it's been pretty good. For road trips, I generally figure 180-ish miles on an 80% charge (so 80-10%). I have no problems charging above 80% if needed. Don't worry too much about range, after your first road trip, you'll have it figured out.
From Vermont, a few miles south of the Canadian border: never less than 140 showing at 80%, even in winter. But we drive at the speed limit, which gives far more range than if you drive at 75-80 mph.
Using Interstate 5 between southern Oregon and northern California, in the winter, being very conservative with speed and cabin heating, my AWD Pro-S delivers less than a 140-mile range from an 80% charge.
After a few weeks of anxiety- we figured it out and now we travel worry free and specifics are too variable to consider. Just know that this old timer - age 70- likes the id4
Heat pumps are no longer offered on ID.4s, and I highly recommend steering away. Your range will be critically worsen in cold weather and not having pre conditioning charging puts the nail in the coffin.
Torrential rainfall, or polar vortex with -20C with lot's of snow. Those are the situations where you can drop the range to below 140mi. Poler vortices are predicted, and you wouldn't want to go for a hike amidst one. The torrential rainfall scenario is more likely. Though not sure how much it drops the range because when that happened to us about 3 times, we were never too preoccupied with the range but with traction and visibility.
If you can preheat the battery at home you won't experience such charge drops. Not sure about the heat pump though. Our Canadian colleague's such as @knash might be better to verify the heat pump question. The US AWD has a heated windshield (handy in the cold), but no heat pump.
Forgetfulness... I'm guaranteed to forget to switch from 80% to 100% the night before at least once and as a one car family, there is no Plan B.
@MR. Ed of course Ontario, Canada is pretty flat too... hopefully I see the same.
So, would it be fair to say that outside of terrible winter conditions (or polar vortex/monsoons) I should reliably expect to get +180mi from 80% even with 3 people in the cab and maybe a bike rack? Or does the bike rack absolutley kill the range (YouTube reviews range from 6% to 20% range loss, which is confusing.)
In this case, I suppose I could charge to 80% on weekdays and 100% on weekends (anticipating longer trips if needed...
I've never had efficiency that bad to only get 140 from an 80% charge. If you forget to set it up for 100% the night before, plan B could be to delay departure a bit and finish charging in the morning.
Bike rack on the back or on top? I've done some driving w bikes on a hitch rack & it doesn't seem to be a huge hit.
Huge headwind and/or driving really fast might drop your range that much. Big elevation gain would for sure (up & down not big deal).
The thing I understand about 100% charge is that you just don't want the car to sit at that level for very long. If you use the car a lot, charge to 100%. You didn't buy it to not use it.
I live in CT. Bought the car (AWD) in early December 2022 (MY23) and drove it in 8 degree F weather with strong headwinds. Got 2.6 mi/kWh (200 mi range estimated at 100%). I was just using seat heaters and steering wheel but can guess it might be 180 if I had the cabin heat on. So that’d put it at 145 at 80% but just like one of the other posters mentioned. If you’re worried about range just set the car to 100% and (as another poster mentioned) to avoid sitting at 100% too long you can just set the infotainment screen to have it charged and preheated at the time of desired departure (which will save range because you used your home’s electricity) to heat up the car. So basically in the worst conditions, about 180. Right now it’s been 70s F and we’ve had days where we average up to 3.9 mi/kWh (300 mi range estimated). Very much depends on how you drive, too. My spouse has a heavy foot and gets about 10% less efficiency but as long as you know you don’t need it, it’s not an issue. Just make sure to:
pre-heat the cabin
charge to desired % prior to trip
don’t floor it if you don’t have to, gradual speed changes when accelerating makes a big difference
anything faster than 70 mph starts to affect efficiency more dramatically (i.e. you will get a lot less range at 80mph the whole trip [but remember, if that’s how you drive and you don’t need the distance, no worries, but if you do, just take the extra 10-15 min to get there with less range anxiety])
A/C cooling has less effect on range than using the heat, but you can save range by not blasting the fan speed and you can periodically turn it off because the cabin retains heat really well…with that said, I’ve never been in danger of low range on a trip that I’ve NEEDED to turn off the heat. I’ve only done it to play around with efficiency
A data point: Every day, I commute 38 miles round-trip to work, by time, half suburban and half at 80 MPH. Every night, I recharge to 80% I let the car pre-condition in the morning and because my L2 charger is only 16 Amps, on cold days, that eats into the battery range a bit.
In this year's New Hampshire Winter (which was cold but not stunningly so), I think the lowest GoM range starting out in my 2021 AWD Pro S was 151 miles.
Now, in the warmer weather, starts at 195 miles are more typical.
We're in Maine, the big thumb wedging apart Quebec and New Brunswick. In the height of winter we can expect anywhere from 120 to 180 miles at 80% depending on temperature and wind direction. This affects us only in how often we need to charge the battery at home, and whether we remember to plug in for a morning commute to preheat the cabin and the battery.
But if we're planning a trip to, say, Portland, 180 miles round-trip, we'll charge to 100%, timing it so the charge (and the cabin preheating) finishes around departure-time. So far we've never needed to charge en route--but then if it's roaring Northwest 45-knots we just let Portland live without us into a more propitious day.
Outside the bleak midwinter, we don't think of it all beyond a cursory squint at the state-o-charge and a guestimation of battery usage for wherever and back again.
The point being, you can drive yourself insane obsessing over the minutiae of how many electrons can dance on the head of a pin--a side-effect of this forum being so well provided with Engineers.
We're in Maine, the big thumb wedging apart Quebec and New Brunswick. In the height of winter we can expect anywhere from 120 to 180 miles at 80% depending on temperature and wind direction. This affects us only in how often we need to charge the battery at home, and whether we remember to plug in for a morning commute to preheat the cabin and the battery.
But if we're planning a trip to, say, Portland, 180 miles round-trip, we'll charge to 100%, timing it so the charge (and the cabin preheating) finishes around departure-time. So far we've never needed to charge en route--but then if it's roaring Northwest 45-knots we just let Portland live without us into a more propitious day.
Outside the bleak midwinter, we don't think of it all beyond a cursory squint at the state-o-charge and a guestimation of battery usage for wherever and back again.
The point being, you can drive yourself insane obsessing over the minutiae of how many electrons can dance on the head of a pin--a side-effect of this forum being so well provided with Engineers.
Yes. Exactly. The most salient point being that whenever anyone needs maximum range, then they should not hesitate to charge to 100%. If that means charging to 100% every day, then so be it. That’s what 100% is there for.
I guess I just don’t understand why the OP is worried and obsessing so much about range at 80%. It’s no different than saying, “I’m only going to be charging to 20% and am really worried about my maximum range at this SoC.” The question should really be about whether or not 100% will be enough.
And as a side note, I’ve been driving an EV for 5.5 years (and two EVs for the last ~1.5 years), and the only range anxiety I ever experienced was before actually owning an EV (now, charger anxiety — that’s a different story). After I owned an EV, I learned what the car can do, adapted to its limitations, did a bit more planning, stopped worrying so much and overthinking, and now just enjoy owning and driving my two EVs.
It's 145 miles to my parents house in western Minnesota and on the coldest days of winter - say under 0F - 80% won't cut it, I need to leave at 100% and ideally preheated.
But we don't make that trip often in winter. In summer I could almost make the round trip on a single charge!
Interesting point about range in extreme cold. When temps drop below 0F/-18C, all bets are off, imo. Every EV—indeed, every vehicle—will struggle in some way in such extreme conditions.
I drove from TN to WI in the winter with the family. 4 people + luggage. It was below freezing. Speed, cabin heat, and the cold killed the range. We probably averaged 75-80 mph, with the heat set to 72 or so. 80% yielded us about 130-140 range iirc.
I am in Ontario, received 2023 AWD pro in January. I have around 8k+ km so far and long term efficiency numbers are 19.1 kwh/100km including all weather patterns from -35ish 'c to +30ish 'c. 80% Hwy driving. No wind perfect weather gives me around 16/7ish kwh/100km for 90km round trip to my work
Double check about heat pump as it was removed from all 2023s few months ago due to parts shortages. Mine is one of the only few 2023 models in Canada, which has Heat pump. I would say not having it should not be a deal breaker it may add a few km but nothing significant. As per VW it uses 30% less energy than resistive heater so instead of 6kwh/100km it will use about 4kwh/100km in best case scenario, so overall it may increase range by 5/7% not significant.
Don't stress too much about range, just slow down to increase range and use ABRP or some other route planning apps which considers elevation changes. Major factors which ding range the most is Speed, Headwind and Elevation. Also below -8'c it uses energy to Heat up the battery and because of that short trips are very inefficient.
Another thing you need to keep in mind is battery degradation, day by day your range will go down as battery degrades so if you barely make something today, may not be possible tomorrow. Even though VW advertises 77kwh usable battery, in fact it's just 72kWh when charged to 100% when vehicle is new, rest is buffer.
Currently I am in Houston, used my Odyssey to drive 2500km with just 2 fuel stops on the way vs it would take around 9 charging stops with ID4. I was able to finish trip in 2 days vs it may take 3 days with ID4, due to very high out of pocket DCFC costs and extra day at Hotel, it may have costed me more to drive ID4 on this trip vs ICE car. If it's just 1-2 long trips per year, just consider renting the ICE/hybrid car in my opinion to avoid any range anxiety and to avoid adding extra kms to you car.
That is a lot effort for lack of a heat pump that most people aren’t willing to do. Even Tesla’s before the heat pump introduced in 2020 prior to model Y’s have had shares of nightmare stories of losing range. My Nissan Leaf degraded down to 35 miles would get only 17 miles when cold because of battery degradation and not having a heat pump.
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