IMHO, this is where dynamic pricing should factor in. Maybe it's too early in the game for the charging providers to do that now, but as I've posted here previously, the rate EA and others charge should reflect the local market as well as the site usage patterns, to financially entice EV owners to switch to off-peak times as well as seek out less in-demand locations.

I don't think there's an easy solution here. A commuter may need to charge in order to get home, vs. somebody else who is using a high-demand time slot out of habit or convenience. But would it be fair for EA or VW to create "no free charging" blackout periods? (similar to season passes at ski areas that exclude high-demand holiday weekends?) Or for EVgo to artificially lower their peak charging output to lower their site's consumption?

At the scale any grouping of DCFC sites represents vs. overall grid demand, I imagine it's pretty low vs. the droves of EVs which arrive home and might plug in to their 40 amp EVSEs all at the same time, despite any one DCFC stand's kW throughput being potentially 20x higher. So the real impact rests with household use and is solved by scheduled charging + TOU rate plans. But moving forward, there'll need to be some consideration of local needs / limitations / pricing structures of DCFC sites.

 

I don't think there's an easy solution here. A commuter may need to charge in order to get home

I agree with most everything you point out except the above. With a modicum of planning, you can avoid late afternoon DCFC charging session unless you have some insane commute.

My guess is the only way to get them to care is $

 

There's a TOU highway in central MD. MD RT 200 charges more during commuting hours to try to reduce traffic and increase car pooling. Not the same as reducing electricity usage during critical hours.
My electricity provider BGE has a plan where they raise your inside thermostat by 4 degrees for 4 hours (4 to 8pm) on what they declare high energy days. You register your smart thermostat and get a $50 credit card at the end of the summer season.
But I digress.
Why should EV drivers be outed? I don't think they really impact overall electricity usage. Aren't most commuters charging at LVL2 at home?
Disclaimer: central MD doesn't suffer from 3 digit temperature days very often. The hottest day this year was only 95 degrees.

 

Why should EV drivers be outed?

Because DCFC uses a lot of power and the decisons of a small number of people can have outsized impact.

If peak DCFC continues to coincide with peak AC demand even on select summer days when ISO asks for discretion, I believe it can really make an impact noticeable to grid operator.

As example from today, in early days of BEV adoption...
The screenshot below for one corner of Los Angeles has 20 EA stations, 6 are full, and you'll have to take my word that most were 75% occupied.

Back of the napkin estimate:
Average station has 4 working chargers
Estimated BEV fast charging in screenshot below: 65

Average Kw per car at any moment: ?70 kw?
= 4600 kw.

This is equivalent to 1300 homes 3t AC units running. So 65 people making a decision equivalent to 1300 single family homes deciding to drop their thermostats in middle of flex alert and kick on their AC

I would love love to get someone with experience as grid operator to opine on this though to better understand the impact

 

If California did all rebates giving to buying new EV invested in getting more energy available to CA this would not be a problem.
Advocating for no ICE in future and EV only with known issue they had already for many years is wrong way how taxpayers money should be distributed. Most of you in CA have over 12k in all rebates buying EV. And all loopholes that are used for money grants to install fast DC charging locations without first making sure energy providers have enough power to keep up with demand. Entire path of US pushing the EV is upside down with how taxpayers money is waisted.
This is going to be just bigger problem if US government doesn't make stop to taxpayers money finishing in manufacturers pockets.
How many times we have witnessed MSRP getting bumped because some specific market is giving rebates on EV vehicle's.

 

If California did all rebates giving to buying new EV invested in getting more energy available to CA this would not be a problem.
Advocating for no ICE in future and EV only with known issue they had already for many years is wrong way how taxpayers money should be distributed. Most of you in CA have over 12k in all rebates buying EV. And all loopholes that are used for money grants to install fast DC charging locations without first making sure energy providers have enough power to keep up with demand. Entire path of US pushing the EV is upside down with how taxpayers money is waisted.
This is going to be just bigger problem if US government doesn't make stop to taxpayers money finishing in manufacturers pockets.
How many times we have witnessed MSRP getting bumped because some specific market is giving rebates on EV vehicle's.

Most of you in CA have over 12k in all rebates buying EV. ...

I got 10k the first for a spark ev... sold it. Got another 15k and got a bolt ev for free... lemon got 33k back then another 52k in grants, rebates and tax credit on the newest total....

 

Raise prices by 50% during peak times and couple that with lowering prices by 25% during off hours when you would prefer everyone to charge. That would give people a pretty big incentive to 'do the right thing'

 

It sounds like California needs about 15 to 20% more electricity that is reliably generated between 4 and 9PM. More if you count the electricity imported from other states.

 

Why just focus on EV charging? Gas stations use electricity.

 

Probably not equivalent, ie a lot of gasoline can be pumped into a lot of cars to drive a lot of miles, many more than one EV DC fast charging.

I could argue that since my home doesn't have AC, I should be free to use that electricity to charge my car in the afternoons (but I won't).

The reality is there are a lot of what abouts, but at crunch time, if everybody doesn't chip in and the demand outstrips supply, a block of utility customers will be shut off indiscriminately, including the EV chargers, the gas station pumps, the senior center HVAC, and the amusement park log ride.

So it's best everybody do their little part to stave off the problem, regardless of how they feel about what the neighbor is doing or not doing.

 

So let's talk how many of us have collected in EV friendly state's over the years in taxpayers money that have gone wrong way.
I know couple dealership's that have 8 or more Rivian pickups EV on used lots and i know so many fleets abusing EV rebates.
Just let me say this, i have nothing against anyone who has collected so many rebates over the years. But let's be honest if this taxpayers money have been invested in getting more energy available to some EV friendly state's this would be completely different than what is happening now with CA or other states in future.
Even new rebates like one for used EV is limited to dealership transactions only, no private party sales. We have witnessed for many years already, every time there are rebates on EV,manufacturers are boosting MSRP and all the money actually finishing in manufacturers pockets. They even let buy green credits legally from companies like Tesla to avoid fines for selling high polluting vehicles. Or has anyone tried to understand why ICE vehicle's in US ( American made and import designed for US market are gas hogs).
Or passing laws about percentage of battery ingredients to get rebates. And it takes almost 7-10 years from scratch to find and start producing minerals needed for battery cells.
It seems to me if you read between the lines US government is on purpose crippling EV revolution and doing nothing for proper ways to make right steps for EV to become successful and affordable.
I have probably missed other things when reading between the lines how they actually promote more gas powered vehicles than what we really want to see in future.

 

Short of price controls or physical limits, there is nothing that will stop people from charging whenever they want. Are you equally concerned about the lack of strict zoning rules for building insulation and roof albedo? With a home insulated to modern standards, you can condition 1000 to 2000 square feet for every ton of AC capacity, so most homes would be fine with 1-1.5T if built properly.

 

And my house was built in 1972. It would be more cost effective to bulldoze it and start over if I had to meet today’s efficiency standards.

 

So let's talk how many of us have collected in EV friendly state's over the years in taxpayers money that have gone wrong way.
I know couple dealership's that have 8 or more Rivian pickups EV on used lots and i know so many fleets abusing EV rebates.
Just let me say this, i have nothing against anyone who has collected so many rebates over the years. But let's be honest if this taxpayers money have been invested in getting more energy available to some EV friendly state's this would be completely different than what is happening now with CA or other states in future.
Even new rebates like one for used EV is limited to dealership transactions only, no private party sales. We have witnessed for many years already, every time there are rebates on EV,manufacturers are boosting MSRP and all the money actually finishing in manufacturers pockets. They even let buy green credits legally from companies like Tesla to avoid fines for selling high polluting vehicles. Or has anyone tried to understand why ICE vehicle's in US ( American made and import designed for US market are gas hogs).
Or passing laws about percentage of battery ingredients to get rebates. And it takes almost 7-10 years from scratch to find and start producing minerals needed for battery cells.
It seems to me if you read between the lines US government is on purpose crippling EV revolution and doing nothing for proper ways to make right steps for EV to become successful and affordable.
I have probably missed other things when reading between the lines how they actually promote more gas powered vehicles than what we really want to see in future.

 

So let's talk how many of us have collected in EV friendly state's over the years in taxpayers money that have gone wrong way.
I know couple dealership's that have 8 or more Rivian pickups EV on used lots and i know so many fleets abusing EV rebates.
Just let me say this, i have nothing against anyone who has collected so many rebates over the years. But let's be honest if this taxpayers money have been invested in getting more energy available to some EV friendly state's this would be completely different than what is happening now with CA or other states in future.
Even new rebates like one for used EV is limited to dealership transactions only, no private party sales. We have witnessed for many years already, every time there are rebates on EV,manufacturers are boosting MSRP and all the money actually finishing in manufacturers pockets. They even let buy green credits legally from companies like Tesla to avoid fines for selling high polluting vehicles. Or has anyone tried to understand why ICE vehicle's in US ( American made and import designed for US market are gas hogs).
Or passing laws about percentage of battery ingredients to get rebates. And it takes almost 7-10 years from scratch to find and start producing minerals needed for battery cells.
It seems to me if you read between the lines US government is on purpose crippling EV revolution and doing nothing for proper ways to make right steps for EV to become successful and affordable.
I have probably missed other things when reading between the lines how they actually promote more gas powered vehicles than what we really want to see in future.

It's how American democracy works. A faction wants one thing--taxpayer support for solar panels or EVs or insulation retrofits--and another faction doesn't want them to have any of those things: wants, in effect, the exact opposite. Some of the more blatantly boneheaded stipulations in the IRA bill were chips traded to a particularly recalcitrant coal-state senator to ensure his vote, meaning the bill would pass. The greater good, at least in theory.

 

off topic but relevant to general state of affairs and my pessimism

Chevy bolt on 350 this morning while I charged on 150 (tech fixing chargers, briefly spoke to him, no etron... huge Chevy V8 gasser)

found this on PlugsShare (different bolt, wrong day)

 

People trying to get away on a Friday before a summer holiday weekend is going to be a problem until grid capacity is increased.

 

No problem this holiday weekend. There have been no cuts to power. Nobody has been told they can't charge their cars. The Flex Alert is simply a tool to request voluntary compliance with electricity reductions so that people who need it have it.

In fact unlike every other major electrical appliance, I would bet generally speaking EVs aren't a huge factor in this because owners are indoctrinated from the outset to charge during off-peak hours, are given the tools to do so (except VW owners!), and are monitarily incentivized to get with the program. That can't be said for AC, ovens, dryers, pool pumps, my neighbor's loud stereo, and other household appliances.

But again the point of all this is that we prevent blackouts so that life can be normal and people who need to can charge their vehicles.

Californians have been getting Flex Alerts since the Enron days, it's nothing new, EVs are just a new consideration for many (and seem to have caught the media's attention, probably because their sales have really taken off this past year).

Similarly, Californians receive Spare the Air alerts regularly asking for voluntary cutbacks in driving and other pollution-generating activities, due to high pressure weather systems stalling over particular regions, trapping emissions and severely impacting air quality. But nobody ever says "oh darn, now I can't go on my weekend trip."

 

Once the DC FC stations adopt solar and battery to offset some of the peak. People that are not going anywhere and the vehicle is home plugged in should allow for 2 way power to be a help to the grid using the car's battery pack and sell power back to the grid. If more people could have solar/battery at home, could offset the demand on the grid and help power the house. California has wind and solar to help generate electricity to rely less on hydro. The bigger issue is the grid condition itself that needs to have some long neglected upgrades and repairs done. If you had enough solar to generate a net 11kw, would be enough to charge most EVs at a level 2 charge rate directly and be zero impact on the grid.

The panic in California is similar to what people do during hurricanes, horde gas and supplies. The Flex alert is discouraging charging in certain areas at a block of time, not 24/7. If you have to charge, you could. If you don't , people should charge on either side of the power restriction. If you are at home, charge overnight, especially in super off peak hours. The DC Fast Charger network has some serious work to do and people need to have some charge station etiquette.

Charge for what you need to get out of the congested area or to 80% and go! Don't be that person who leaves a car in a spot not charging or after the vehicle is finished charging, it's not cool. If your car cannot charge above 150kw, you shouldn't tie up a 350kw station for someone that has a car that can charge faster. Leave the chademo station open if there are older EV's like a leaf around, they have less options to charge and that may be the only plug around.

It's funny, this is like the days when everyone kept an eye out for a plug before smartphones had better battery life, always looking to plug in for as long as they could. Same thing, charge at work, home overnight, in the car...

At this point, it's going to be a painful ramp up in educating newer EV drivers on what speeds their vehicles can charge at, when they should charge and how long, how to plan out a trip. I think it's time for charge stations to really ramp up on battery storage along with solar to help soften impacts and demand on the grid and get their infrastructure in shape ASAP. I hope to be more to totally self sufficient at home and work in short order.