Welcome to the group, Mike. So, you didn't know of this branded title before you purchased? This was not on the purchase order? You might have a case of dealer fraud. I don't know if it is possible to legally change a title.

 

Thanks for your responses. As you can probably guess, I've been on the phone with a few different folks today. So to answer your comments and questions;
1. I had never heard the term "branded title" previously. The dealer only told me it was a VWGoA buyback (i.e. CA Lemon Law program) which I cleary understood.
2. The WA State dealers "Vehicle Buyers Order" form only gives the choice of." Rebuilt, Junk, Salvage/Rebuilt, Destroyed, Other". That's it. Mine was checked as "Other".
3. In talking with the CA DMV office in Sacramento today, the mfg. (not the dealer) provides the revised title to the state. This is shown in the updated NMVTIS Vehicle records report. I had also reviewed CA States MV statutes and saw the statues were listing physical problems for branding titles, but not electronic modules or software issues (light bulb came on!).
4. The NMVTIS report, under "Title Brand Reported" gives a number of options, ranging from Salt water damage, Junk, Prior Taxi, Hail Damage, Kit, Prior Police and a number of others. But interestingly, the very first option that could be checked is "Clear". So why wasn't "Clear" checked?
5. Talking with the rep at VWGoA in Auburn Hills MI this morning, at first I was told this was a dealer/customer issue. I reminded him that CA DMV told me that they respond to what the mfg reports is the revised title, which the DMV forwards to the NMVTIS. The VW rep said he hadn't come across this issue before. I was put on hold. He came back stating they can't change the title. I asked him to pull up the recall notice or RO (Repair Order) that the dealers couldn't see. The report cam back with one NHTSA campaign software update (OUE7), a door latch issue and one minor other. Nothing else. I asked him to email that report to me.
6. I haven't heard back from the dealer finance company yet. I've appied for full coverage with USAA and have been "conditionaly approved". And my wife just took off in her new ID.4 to run some errands.

What I think has happened is that auto industry, state agencies and their laws have not caught up with the new systems in automobiles. So many of the automotive automation control systems are software driven and that the statutes for classifying issues (branded titles) need to be revised. In my case, a simple delayed software update has caused a perfectly sound car to be "branded" as a "tainted" vehicle (one step above salvage is what my current insurer said to me) and the new owner pays the cost and inconvenience. It actually goes futher than that in this issue. The original buyer returns the car under the Lemon Law, the mfg. has to buy it back, repairs the module/software, sells the rebranded vehicle at a loss to the dealer. The dealer sells it at a decent profit and the next owner has to deal with the possiblity of being difficult to finance and/or get full insurance. It he decides to keep and eventually sell or trade, he's now dealing with a diminished value issue.

You might ask what I'm looking for? Idealy, for VW to issue a new "clear" title (probably not) or have VW issue on their letterhead that the vehicle had no issues other than waiting for a software update. The CA DMV can then change the NMVTIS paperwork "title brand reported" as "clear".

Now as to the CA dealer having to place a "buy back sticker" on the car (inside B pillar), that is not the dealers responsibility but by law, the manufacturers as they are providiing the corrective actions and the revised title.

The dealer I purchased the car from did not have a sticker on the car or visible notice displayed, but that's a whole separate issue to pursue. But I was told by the sales person that it was a factory buyback car.

It's been an interesting couple of days. I'll keep you posted. Love the car, when my wife let's me drive it. Cheers !

 

The problem you face is that the state brands the title, not VW. So as you were made aware prior to purchase, the vehicle was a buyback, and I believe that fulfills VW's disclosure obligation.

But I do believe that's just semantics, that the dealership knew full well the title would be branded, and that it should have plainly stated it on the Carfax report. In California, the dealer is supposed to apply a "buyback" decal to the driver side door frame. I'm not entirely clear what this decal should say, but I've seen examples where it plainly states "has a branded title."

 

Hello Spin,
Thanks for your comments. It had 10,724. Out the door, just a hair over $24k. It came with Lev 1 & 2 chargers, factory rubber mats, new Pirelli Scorpions Zero AS.
Cheers !

 

So the real issue is that you can't get financing and full coverage insurance? I would hope VW could help with that, given the circumstances.

Otherwise, it sounds like you got a great car for a pretty good deal. The Pro S Plus cars are nice, and they didn't make that many of them.

 

Some years ago i bought a branded car for one of ours at college. Aside from what the dealer had done, i paid a mechanic to go thru it and he gave it a good report. At the time this 3 year old car unbranded would have been 12 to 14 k. We got it for 7. What i am saying is i hope you got a helluva good deal on yours. I never heard of branded titles either. But it was fully disclosed by dealer and we knew what we were getting and why it was so cheap. If you got neither full disclosure and paid full retail, well you might need to consult an attorney.

 

I'm going to weigh in as I was in auto retail for 40 years and purchased buy backs from OEMs and resold them. Every OEM makes dealers and purchasers sign many documents specific to the buy back, what is covered and what isn't. Once a vehicle has been repurchased from a customer as a buy back, it can't be undone. The title will be branded forever. There is nothing inherently wrong with buy back vehicles.....during Covid, parts were very difficult to get and Lemon Laws (every state has their own) nearly always have a 'days to repair' clause that can trigger a buy back.

It's also true that this effects the market value of the car so you should be purchasing at a 20 to 40% discount from market. I bought a used MB SLK R170 a few years back that had been bought back in 2003 when the car had 300 miles on it. I bought it with 110K and it currently have 150 on it.

 

Electrodoug and others,

Thanks again for chiming in. I'm making progress but the mysteries continue.
Regarding who determines the specific rebranded title description, on factory buy-backs, the factory determines the title, not the state. On all others, within the state where the "condition" of the vehicle changes; e.g., salvage, hail damage, kit, fire damage, etc., the state determines the new title classification.

I just got back from BECU where I've financed the car. In the paperwork, there's the "WA State Vehicle Title Application" form. The credit union files this with the state. The cells pertaining to this car were auto populated based on the VIN. In the cell marked "Fuel Type" it was populated with "Gasoline". I pointed this out and was told that the WA State DMV has to make that change.
I'll call the state DMV on Monday.
On this same form, there is no cell pertaining to the title as issued (or reissued) from the factory. However, there is a cell for a choice of "Lease, Plate Transfer Number or Title Purposes Only". None of them being checked. There is another section, "Dealer", with the choices of "New, Used or Prev titled". Because this application is being filed by the credit union and not a dealer, none of these boxes are checked.

So at this time, my car is financed and fully insured. As far as I can see, BECU and USAA have no problems with having a branded vehicle because none of their paperwork has provisions for noting a branded title and internally, their systems are not set up to red flag as such.

As far as getting or negotiating a deep discount for being a branded or buy back vehicle, market provisions prevail. Last month, state and/or federal EV rebates ended on 30 Sep. The EV AWD's are very popular in the Seattle area. BMW I3's extended range cars are being purchased locally by out-of-state buyers and shipped direct.

Calling VWGoA on Friday about not yet receiving the full recall/title branding report via e-mail, I was told it takes about 4-5 workdays to receive as it has to go through an approval process.
I also still have the remaining full factory warranty.

I'll post whatever else I find out.

Cheers !

 

Jupiter/Waldo,

I like your idea!!
BTW, I could kick myself for not switching to USAA years ago. I was complacent in thinking that Farmers would remain competitive. Not so.
Cheers !