Consumer Reports also recommends LG refrigerators for their reliability. The same LG refrigerators that have had multiple class action lawsuits over the past decades for compressors that won't work and won't be covered by warranty.

I only read CR for the comedy.

 

We have had an LG refrigerator, washer and dryer. All of them have been working flawlessly for many years.

 

It's worth looking at the judging criteria. Recalls count against reliability, even if they're "minor," and as we are all aware the ID.4 has had a host or recalls. And it certainly doesn't help that maybe a quarter of owners who had their door handles replaced (some being brought in for the third time, 3 separate recalls!) received at least one defective NEW door handle in the bunch, requiring yet another shop visit.

Consumer satisfaction indirectly plays into these ratings as well. If you've got a group of owners who feel slighted because of "missing" features. If an owner as negative feelings because the OTAs never came to fruition, because they can't reliably use Car-Net, because the charging limit seemingly randomly bounces between 80 and 100, because Plug & Charge has yet to appear... even if not questioned directly about those items, it influences their (our) reporting of the severity of other issues.

Based on my time on this board I don't believe for one minute that the ID.4 is an unreliable car -- in fact I think my 2021 is going to last me a good long while without problems knock on wood -- but I'm not blind to the fact that this car and VW have systemic problems, some of which were designed into this car, others which VW can not seem to solve its way out of, and unfortunately these all get lumped in to one consolidated reliability score.

 

Satifaction=expectations+experience. "my car only had two problems over the last three years so it was great"..... or.... "I can believe I already had two problems with this piece of junk over the last three years".

Of course, it depends on the severity of problems as well.

Years a go VW had been known for having interiors that looked and felt more upscale compared to their competitors even if they were not luxury appointments. They could be setting themselves for expectations that are difficult to meet. Folks that buy competitive cars that may have a lower price but disappointing interiors or materials may set lower buyer expectations but at least "they got a good deal". There is also a difference between the industrial definition of quality versus perceived quality or standards of the consumer.

 

If you have ever filled out a CR customer satisfaction survey then you'd understand just how questionable their ratings are. The reliability ratings are based almost entirely on those customer surveys, since there are no other sources for "problem reports".

 

If you're assessing reliability in the field, what else should matter besides the experience of actual customers with the actual fielded product?

 

How is it possible that the ID.4 is (was?) at the top of consumer reports 10 least reliable cars list?

According to a Consumer Reports article from Dec 5 2024, the ID.4 is the least reliable vehicle. It is specifically mentioned as having issues with the electric vehicle battery, drive system, brakes, and charging problems related to the onboard inverter.

I also noticed that they now rate Volkswagen as the least reliable brand.

Were there really that many of them with serious issues or does Consumer Reports have a vendetta against Volkswagen?

I have not had any issues other than the "as designed" infotainment issues and that my drivers door handle is still wonky after the recall replacement (it was fine before).

It all depends on how you count reliability.

If you count each software bug encountered each time it's encountered as a separate failure, then there's no doubt in my mind that my VW ID.4 was the least-reliable vehicle I've ever owned (and by a huge margin). I'd encounter the same software bugs day after day after day with a new one thrown in every few weeks or months.*

If you count each displayed error message or event where the car became momentarily undriveable as a separate failure, then the ID.4 is still pretty awful (and still probably my least-reliable car ever).

If you only count failures that needed the workshop to correct them as failures, then maybe the ID.4 isn't an unreliable car. But somewhere in that equation, you've got to also weight the fact that when the car did fail in a way that needed the workshop, the repairs ALWAYS took at least “days” and occasionally, “weeks, whether the problem was time to diagnose correctly, time to obtain repair parts, or total time to effect an effective repair. And even by that measure, my ID.4 was probably my least-reliable car ever.

But no matter how you measure it, CR isn't wrong about the ID.4's tragically-awful reliability if you simply want a car that gets you where you want to go when you want to go.

* Many of you claim to have never seen many of the software bugs that I encountered daily. That can only be because you weren't noticing them as they occurred because they weren't unique to my ID.4, they were endemic to the entire fleet.

 

* Many of you claim to have never seen many of the software bugs that I encountered daily. That can only be because you weren't noticing them as they occurred because they weren't unique to my ID.4, they were endemic to the entire fleet.

Out of curiosity, had your ID.4 been updated to 3.5.11 by the time you sold it and were there differences in dependability?

 

VW is quite often criticized for reliability by CR. My experience with the VWs I have had over the years has been quite good. My son now drives the 2016 Golf and it still runs great. My 2019 Alltrack also runs well and had only one repair done under warranty. With regard to our new 2024 ID.4, there have been no problems so far but I will eventually need to take it in for the 12v charger recall. The same with the the 2016 Audi we recently traded in. Over 100k miles the only repair was for a water pump replacement. The 2008 Porsche Carrera also has had only a water pump replaced so far.

My experience with my BMW and Mercedes was, unfortunately, totally different.

We do religiously maintain our cars by the book and I always break them in properly. None of them consume any noticeable amount of oil.

I think, if buying a car for the long term rather than leasing for 3-4 years, the key is go with the more basic trim levels, avoiding mor and more electronics, large opening sunroofs, pneumatic suspensions, etc.

 

Let's see: battery modules replaced 3 times, door handles replaced twice, air conditioning sensor replaced once. The battery modules had the vehicle down for 8 days each time and car rental was at my expense. The air-conditioning sensor was at my expense. One time the door handle was at my expense This is my third VW and the only one that I have had to replace the windshield on once though I really should have replaced it three times by now, at my expense of course. Tires, once I got rid of the Bridgestones were better than seems to be average.
Edit: the forward console USB C ports had to be replaced at my expense.

 

I suspect 2025 Q2 ID.4 US sales could be down from the 5,690 2024 Q2 US sales which were down 14.9% from the 6,690 2023 Q2 US sales.
.

 

There's a fair amount of complaining about problems with the Volvo EX90. Similar story with software and hardware failures and supply chain delays. The problems are not unique to VW.

A valid question is whether the CR statistics specific to the VW are useful or not. I've had Hondas and Mazdas with 100k miles that have never been in the shop. But one user's data points don't prove anything.

 

Hmmmm . . . Let's see: Since taking delivery in February 23, two annual state inspections, one door-handle recall, another door-handle recall and a few other software recalls pending in three weeks, several wiper-fluid refills, some car-wash drive-thrus, one screen glitch solved with a 15-second reset, a stiff learning curve here and there, but nothing beyond remedial problem-solving.

Real problems? nothing memorable. Minor irritants at the worst. Still, VW's short-attention span and spotty ethics (was diesel gate an aberration or a symptom?) leave me wondering about a course when the lease runs out in February 26, but so far the ID.4's been the most enjoyable car we've owned in 50-some years. For other forumites here, it's an imp-o-satan that gave them a permanent case of the fan-tods.

So, very much YMMV.

 

I can't speak for others, but most of my software nuisances have been eliminated within the last year or so. Most annoying item was the random resetting of driver profiles at startup.... hasn't happened in quite some time. The addition of charge settings via the app was also most welcome. I did get a few ADAS failure cautions driving in slush last winter, intermittent*. Curious if that has been resolved or simply a byproduct of obstructed sensors.

 

I was a 5-year CR subscriber in (I admit) the 1970s. They loved VW cars. I let them convince me that the 1977 VW Diesel Rabbit was the one to have. So, okay!

By far the worst car I ever, ever owned, and I owned Fiats, for crissakes. That friggin' Rabbit was the only vehicle in my 50+ years driving that left me stranded and required a tow to the dealership. Everything else could at least limp home. The ID.4 I test drove 3? 4? years ago was the first time I stepped into a VW dealership since then.

I'll save y'all the misery and not trot out my insufferable harangue about CR. I unfriended CR at the end of that 5-year gig.

 

My 1978 Rabbit Diesel which I purchased new was excellent. I put 70k miles on it before selling it at a good price for me. Only oil changes and a set of front brakes. 55-65 mpg. Excellent experience. Even better, I had this during the second gas shortage of the 1970s. Everyone was waiting on line to get gas except for me.

 

A coworker in the early nineties had a small diesel truck. Maybe an Isuzu? Too many years ago to remember all the details. What I do remember for sure was it smoked like a mosquito fogger and was 25% rust.

 

I’ve never agreed with CR on any of their recommendations so why start now? Their definition of reliability takes into account people’s ability to understand things … and European cars are notoriously harder to understand, even more so for people who don’t read manuals (somehow this seems more prevalent in America where there’s lower financial barriers to entry to become a driver). They’ve always had peculiar ways of doing things that hew more to tradition and required you to be “in the know” … that’s the charm after all! It goes along with being engineered with tighter tolerances and lower margins for error, that’s the flip side of better subjective quality and better handling. Their ICE cars were notorious for needing lots more fluid changes and specifically picky maintenance schedules and small failures costing a ton of money to fix. But it’s not just VW; BMW and Mercedes are also near the bottom of the list, as is Volvo. EVs, ironically, remove most of those issues - no elaborate differential and transmission fluid changes for people to skip, then complain when they fail, not to mention things like timing belts and needing to blast the carbon from the intake valves on the direct injection EA888 motors… but it brings us to their weak point - software. The trade off for going with pretty much any European EV is the software is spotty and their fixes take longer and updates are generally much less common and extensive, compared to the bespoke EV brands (Tesla, Rivian, Lucid). But that’s really true of all the traditional automakers - plenty of software issues with the GM Ultium EVs, same with Hyundai and Kia. But, the good thing is the vast majority of these software issues are minor annoyances rather than stranding events - and even better they cost nothing to fix! Definitely unlike ICE cars…

 

It has been my experience that my FE has had more issues than my previous 5 cars combined. It has spent more time at the dealer for recalls, software updates, and other matters than my previous 10 cars combined. It runs, drives, handles great, and has never left us stranded, but is it the least reliable? Maybe not in the traditional sense, but the ratio of driving it to spending time attending to it has been way too high, compared to my previous vehicles.

 

I think that what you describe is attributable to a couple of things. First, there’s the move to a more tech-centric design philosophy and the inherent learning curve of rolling out a first-of-a-kind (FOAK). Rolling out FOAKs in nearly every industry are typically accompanied with “adjustments”. How many recalls have Tesla had, and they are reluctant to issue recalls, unless pressed by the government to do so. Nevertheless, I fully expected growing pains when I ordered my 1st. Ed. But in spite of my fears, the car has been really good. I also think a lot of people are hard on VW because a number of YouTube influencers really punished VW with their reviews, a lot of which seemed like influencers just parroting/repeating what other guys have said. For instance, I heard way too much about the haptic controls and only two switches for the four windows. Enough, already!

I’d buy another VW EV in a heartbeat, but being retired now with just me and the wife, the BUZZ is just too much car and with that, the price tag hard to justify. I was really hoping they’d bring the ID.7 to the US, but I guess they decided that it doesn’t fit with the US fixation on trucks and SUVs. So either I go with another ID.4 with marginal gains, or go to a different manufacturer. I am currently looking at the BMW i4, but I doubt I’ll do anything anytime soon.

 

It would be interesting to see a comparison between the ID4 and other EV models. Breaking it down into infotainment/software problems, battery failure, shear service department incompetence/indifference and bat poop crazy design choices.

 

Eh, statistics are always a bit messy. At least CR give you info on their process. And you can compare surveys to see if there are discrepancies. If one survey rates a car or brand 25th while another rates them 30th... process differences. But if one survey rates a brand 3rd and another rates them 30th, something is amiss.

I might not treat CR or JD as absolute deciders, but they are some of the few resources of aggregated data I have access to, and therefore are more meaningful than a collection of anecdotes - to me. Most other brands have the same issues to deal with as VW. Chevy, Hyundai, BMW, etc all have tech heavy cars. Surveys are a bit like the "wisdom of the crowds" which should help reduce the effect of the fanatic few and make for reasonable comparisons.

If someone has a better source of reliability data, I'd love to know.

 

TrueDelta -- Real Car Owners Driving Real Car Information

This community of 103,000+ car owners shares first-hand, real-world car information and experiences about reliability, fuel economy, repairs and more.

www.truedelta.com

This site has been dormant for the last few years and doesn't even include the ID series in its reliability stats, but it is interesting for older cars.

 

I subscribe to CR and I do participate in their surveys. Overall, I appreciate their findings but the problem with big ticket items like cars, major appliances etc. is that by the time they publish the results the manufacturer may have replaced that model with a new model so you might not find it when shopping.

As an example, their most recent summary for the ID.4 is for previous models without the major updates to the UI or the power and efficiency. They still list the range and other significant factors for the pre 2024 model.

I have also criticized them in my feedback for spending too much time on things like food items and other low value items where I can easily get similar information or the risks are lower like, for example, what's the best breakfast cereal. Really?

A couple of articles over the years made me shake my head;

1. Years ago they reported on insecticides used on produce. They were quite negative about it and suggested we should buy organic. But, in a sidebar they stated that after washing non-organic produce the insecticide levels were comparable to the organically grown produce. At least they admitted it in the smaller print.

2. More recently, there was a CR article on chemical contamination in the packaged foods we buy. They acknowledged the much of the contamination enters the food from the environment ( animals, pesticides and other pollutants such as phthalate plasticizers and BPA) rather than food processing or the packaging. They then began to advise against buying food packaged in plastics or storing food in containers at home made from plastics. The problem is that the plastics widely used for packaging foods on the store shelf and at home are generally cellulosics, polypropylene, polyethylene or PET, none of which contain either of the two chemicals they focused on. Those plastics are relatively inert. They should be concerned about polycarbonate or plasticized PVC holding food at elevated temperatures (e.g.in microwaves) as they contain BPA and phthalate plasticizers, respectively. Oh well.

But, overall, CR does a pretty good job. Their surveys come from real users and owners and the accept no advertising. For me the negatives come from their sometimes detailed analysis of the data.

I have one more funny story. When the VW Rabbit arrived in the US ( 1975?). That car and the AMC Pacer ( really, the Pacer?) were essentially tied for the best new small models based on their tests.

The VW got the nod only because of a bit better mpg.

(Edited for spelling. I need to pay more attention!)

 

The modern TDIs, at least through ALH, were so much better than those older ones. I had an '81 Rabbit pickup, which I loved, but it was an absolute dog with 49 HP, and then I let someone borrow it and it threw a rod right through the low pressure side of the crankcas

It did make me feel big driving it though

The modern TDIs, at least through ALH, were so much better than those older ones. I had an '81 Rabbit pickup, which I loved, but it was an absolute dog with 49 HP, and then I let someone borrow it and it threw a rod right through the low pressure side of the crankcase.

It did make me feel big driving it though

That model was made in PA. I also had a 1980 Rabbit Diesel with A/C. It was also made in PA. It was slow with reduced mpg and was poorly made. VW made the mistake of buying an old Chrysler plant, hiring ex Chrysler employees and sourcing components locally. My worst VW ever. After tolerating it for two years I sold it and bought a 1982 Jetta. That was a great car!

 

Yes, VW has serious quality issues. My daughter owns a 2019 Tiguan; it has so many issues with heater and A/C from the day one. I own a 2024 ID.4 Pro S. It also has issues with the charging port flap. I will take it to the local dealer for door handle and battery recalls next week. I had to wait five months to get an appointment. The bottom line is that I do not feel very comfortable to drive this vehicle because I fear something will go wrong any moment. This vehicle has been in production for almost 6 years now. Why can't VW take care of these problems?

 

They are all the same: If they can save 5 cents, they will and consider it more important than potential quality consequences. It is much the same as insurance companies work. It is all based on statistically anticipated losses versus actual gains. It's pathetic.

 

I must have drawn the short stick!
-The very 1st software update at the dealer bricked the car. Had to wait for almost 2 weeks to get it fixed.
-One Battery Module replacement! Again, had to waited for over 2 weeks for parts.
-Now the car is in the shop for Rear Motor Assy replacement! No estimate of when the parts will arrive!
- Still have 3 Recalls/Service Campaigns (Brake Module Software, Door Handle and Software update). No estimate of when the parts will be available for these neither!
Based in these unfortunate events, the Id4 is one of the least reliable car for me!

 

In an example of impeccable timing Auto Buyer's Guide/Alex on Autos has just posted a 30-minute video on why you should take CR's ratings with a grain of salt. Not to say they're wrong about VW or the ID.4, but if you're looking at their data on brands other than Toyota/Subaru/Lexus, Honda, and HKG you probably aren't getting data based on big samples because CR members who respond to the survey don't seem to buy very many cars sold outside those brands.

 

There are always limitations when it comes to studies or surveys on any subject matter. This video points out a number of those limitations with CR surveys. I have also noticed that some of the reports include information that is obsolete or certain models I am interested in getting information on are not included.

But, what's a good alternative? Social media? Product forums? Google ratings? I don't think so. But having said that these can offer additional inputs to one's decision making process just like CR.

As always , one must evaluate numerous sources of information to get a view from different perspectives/angles and hopefully weed out data that is simply repeated or copied from other sources. CR is just one of those sources.

As an example, I reviewed numerous sources to find that I definitely did not want a VW Golf with what seemed to be leaky, creaky sunroofs. I saw that CR reported reliability issues with the car but not much detail so what was the real issue? This is anecdotal but the 2016 Golf ( base model with no sunroof) has been extremely reliable for me and now my son for nine years - only oil changes, brake fluid changes, one set of front brakes, one spark plug change, one set of tires, cabin filter and wiper blades. No repairs, just wear items. Not bad for a car with a poor reliability rating. How does Toyota beat that?

So, I largely agree with what was in the video but all studies and surveys are flawed.

 

I look at certain aspects of there reports. For instance if they say a certain refrigerator has a trashy compactor I might take it seriously. I am going to research in more depth for a major purchase. Now I often go to ewetube university for reviews that often have demonstrations.

 

I knew this thread was going to be a lot of butt hurt lol.

I like my ID4, but between the bad battery module that took 2 months to replace, the recalls, the glitchy infotainment, I def wouldnt call it reliable. I get that cars are a big purchase, but dont tie up so much of your identity in them that you cant be objective. Immediately jumping to discredit CR for saying things about the ID4 you dont like says more about you than CR lol.

 

Because no manufacturer reports failure rates with vehicles we have no concrete statistics to base opinions on. The fact that a handful of members on a forum have experienced battery cell failures is insignificant compared to the amount of ID4s sold, although still somewhat relevant. There's also a bias because those experiencing failures with their vehicles are more likely to report than those who do not. Would I prefer to see less reports of issues with ID4s? Yes, absolutely. But no vehicle is perfect and EVs may be experiencing growing pains right now.

Take a quick look at the Ioniq5 forums. There's a prominent thread for ICCU issues and a cursory search indicates that an owner waited over three months for a failed cell replacement (see https://www.ioniqforum.com/threads/...wer-5-1-2-months.51316/?post_id=619269&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-6192690. These problems are not unique to ID4s.