[GreyID4]

Folks in this thread have made a good case, as you note above, that D mode may be more efficient by definition than B mode in some or even many situations, especially in steady highway driving. It is not clear how much greater efficiency, but clearly some.

For me, one of the great pleasures of EVs is one-pedal driving (or nearly so on the ID.4). Personally, if I really needed more efficiency for either cost savings or range, I would rather slow down by 5-15 mph on the highway which would likely more than offset any B mode drag, if not be safer as well. Keeping the acceleration/deceleration smooth with the flow of traffic and anticipation of conditions is completely natural and requires no extra thought. It would take more effort for me to switch back and forth between D & B. I can appreciate that others find the switching to be preferable.

When I had my eGolf with 90/60 mile range summer/winter and my Volt with 65/40 mile range summer/winter, I was really into hypermiling in order to get home from local or regional travel without getting into turtle mode (eGolf) or using gas (Volt). Once I got a Kona EV and now with the ID.4, the efficiency is less of a concern. I will sometimes keep the speed down a bit on long trips, although I can always spend a few extra minutes at the fast charger (when working or available!).

With D & B modes, Eco/Comfort/Sport/Traction modes, along with ACC and other assists, the ID.4 provides lots of configurations to experiment with to find what we want or enjoy from a mechanical and/or psychological perspective.

D or B debate is our version of engine oil preference. We are all different and there is no right answer, I don't think.

Your, "Not everyone can do this" comment triggered something in me to respond in this endless debate. As long as there is understanding that people who drive in D only, or mainly, do so as a choice and not because of some perceived inability, I guess I am OK.

I respect your preference for nearly one-pedal driving, your words, but it doesn't do anything for me. If they offered me $25 to take the B mode away, I would take it in a heartbeat.

 

[RobK2023]

D or B debate is our version of engine oil preference. We are all different and there is no right answer, I don't think.

Your, "Not everyone can do this" comment triggered something in me to respond in this endless debate. As long as there is understanding that people who drive in D only, or mainly, do so as a choice and not because of some perceived inability, I guess I am OK.

I respect your preference for nearly one-pedal driving, your words, but it doesn't do anything for me. If they offered me $25 to take the B mode away, I would take it in a heartbeat.

GreyID4, sorry about that as it wasn't targeted at anyone in particular. I realized that you might might have been triggered from your initial response. We all can get defensive in these forums, myself included, when it looks like someone else has misinterpreted what we have said, taken it out of context, or may have implied disrespect (like inability, ignorance, or naivete).

There have always been some people that drive in a jerky manner, even when there was no regen in ICE cars (like my mother when I was a kid). It has always annoyed me and regen has just made it much worse. With my friend driving his Niro, it feels like he is just constantly pumping the accelerator. I tried to coach him and he was game but just couldn't get it for very long before reverting to habit.

 

[RobK2023]

There is no need or benefit to be switching back and forth, since you get just as much regen in D as in B. This is the part that many do not understand. You are simply adjusting the amount of regen with the brake pedal in D, or the go pedal plus some brake in B.

Mechanically that is true, of course, but I was referring to the suggestion in this thread by some that maximum efficiency would be achieved by switching between D on for steady highway driving to B in the city for stop and go . Do you think that the efficiency trade-offs are marginal enough that folks should just pick their favorite mode and stick with it rather than trying to be in the best mode for various conditions? Or, if switching modes for various conditions is not confusing for them and they like both modes, that there are some efficiency gains to be had?

 

[Atlant]

The feedback for that is the green regen bar. When its full and you press the brake further, you are engaging the brakes. I agree seeing a little indicator when the brake lights are on would be nice.

“Full”, of course, isn't obvious in the ID.4. When the light green “Possible Regeneration” bar is short, it's not obvious on a quick glance that you've run out of regenerative braking and will be using the friction brakes. That's why, in my suggestion thread elsewhere, I recommended a direct display at the end of the bar showing that the friction brakes were being used.

 

[SunWizard]

When the light green “Possible Regeneration” bar is short, it's not obvious on a quick glance that you've run out of regenerative braking and will be using the friction brakes.

When the green bar is short, I know I will always be using the friction brakes. Luckily that is only when SOC is > 90%.

 

[GreyID4]

When the green bar is short, I know I will always be using the friction brakes. Luckily that is only when SOC is > 90%.

??
Just to clarify, by the "green bar", you mean the dim/dark potential green bar and not the "bright green bar" which fills up as you break, right?

 

[SunWizard]

??
Just to clarify, by the "green bar", you mean the dim/dark potential green bar and not the "bright green bar" which fills up as you break, right?

In this high SOC case both are short.

 

[IslandLarry]

“Full”, of course, isn't obvious in the ID.4. When the light green “Possible Regeneration” bar is short, it's not obvious on a quick glance that you've run out of regenerative braking and will be using the friction brakes. That's why, in my suggestion thread elsewhere, I recommended a direct display at the end of the bar showing that the friction brakes were being used.

I'm not sure why it matters when the friction brakes kick in.
Are you saying you will brake less when regeneration is not available to avoid using the friction brakes?
Personally I will apply sufficient pressure to the brakes to avoid an accident, regardless of wether or not I am using the motor regeneration or the friction brakes.

 

[Atlant]

I'm not sure why it matters when the friction brakes kick in.
Are you saying you will brake less when regeneration is not available to avoid using the friction brakes?
Personally I will apply sufficient pressure to the breaks to avoid an accident, regardless of wether or not I am using the motor regeneration or the friction brakes.

I could train myself to plan my decelerations better such that the friction brakes rarely are used.

I could also know that I'm braking hard enough to burnish the corrosion off of the discs.

 

[Atlant]

??
Just to clarify, by the "green bar", you mean the dim/dark potential green bar and not the "bright green bar" which fills up as you break, right?

Right. The car will tell you how much of its potential regeneration is available right now, just like it will tell you (via the dim blue bar) how much of its potential propulsion is available right now.

 

[GreyID4]

I could train myself to plan my decelerations better such that the friction brakes rarely are used.

I could also know that I'm braking hard enough to burnish the corrosion off of the discs.

These are good ideas but they have to come after they fix the automatic FOB-to-driver-profile-selection.
AND changing the current speed to show in red when driving over the speed limit.

 

[Roamer105]

Mechanically that is true, of course, but I was referring to the suggestion in this thread by some that maximum efficiency would be achieved by switching between D on for steady highway driving to B in the city for stop and go . Do you think that the efficiency trade-offs are marginal enough that folks should just pick their favorite mode and stick with it rather than trying to be in the best mode for various conditions? Or, if switching modes for various conditions is not confusing for them and they like both modes, that there are some efficiency gains to be had?

If a driver is new to EV and uses D mode, you probably will notice a much more aggressive braking behavior because there is no natural engine brake upon taking the foot of the accelerator. Hence the driver gets the feeling of the car "running away or even accelerating". I noticed that with my wife driving in D mode and me as a passenger. I did suggest to her before not to use B mode because it always felt like she was "pumping" the accelerator in an attempt to keep constant speed. D mode works better for her but when she approaches traffic or a stop she brakes too late causing the braking to be too hard and quick to achieve any meaningful recovery of energy.

 

[Roamer105]

I'm not sure why it matters when the friction brakes kick in.
Are you saying you will brake less when regeneration is not available to avoid using the friction brakes?
Personally I will apply sufficient pressure to the brakes to avoid an accident, regardless of wether or not I am using the motor regeneration or the friction brakes.

Friction braking is creating heat instead of electricity. Heat is wasted. That is why.

 

[RobK2023]

If a driver is new to EV and uses D mode, you probably will notice a much more aggressive braking behavior because there is no natural engine brake upon taking the foot of the accelerator. Hence the driver gets the feeling of the car "running away or even accelerating". I noticed that with my wife driving in D mode and me as a passenger. I did suggest to her before not to use B mode because it always felt like she was "pumping" the accelerator in an attempt to keep constant speed. D mode works better for her but when she approaches traffic or a stop she brakes too late causing the braking to be too hard and quick to achieve any meaningful recovery of energy.

Indeed, D mode with accelerator lift-off can feel like the car is self-propelling! However, for an AWD, there is some regen in D with Sport mode. (I think you have to be in park when you change modes.) It is less than what you get in B with either Eco or Comfort, but might work well for your wife.

 

[Roamer105]

Indeed, D mode with accelerator lift-off can feel like the car is self-propelling! However, for an AWD, there is some regen in D with Sport mode. (I think you have to be in park when you change modes.) It is less than what you get in B with either Eco or Comfort, but might work well for your wife.

Thanks, I did not know that. I'll give that a try.

 

[papab]

Indeed, D mode with accelerator lift-off can feel like the car is self-propelling! However, for an AWD, there is some regen in D with Sport mode. (I think you have to be in park when you change modes.) It is less than what you get in B with either Eco or Comfort, but might work well for your wife.

I stumbled upon this a few weeks ago, and now its gone. No regen in sport mode, D. I'm starting from park in sport mode.

 

[Dougie01]

I use D mode almost exclusively, but just drove over the pass between Silverton and Ouray and found B mode very useful on the steep parts. There are plenty of 8% grades and 15 MPH switchbacks where B mode is perfect. It will bring the car down to 5 MPH on a steep downhill grade.

Also the scenery is awesome. Here’s a snow shed in a particularly bad avalanche area.

 

[3032]

Breathtaking view!

 

[Dougie01]

Interesting situation.