[Pascal]

Tesla, Lucid, Polestar have FOTA (firmware over the air). All other only have SOTA (software over the air).

The term firmware was originally coined in order to contrast to higher level software which could be changed without replacing a hardware component, and firmware is typically involved with very basic low-level operations without which a device would be completely non-functional.

 

[Nai3t]

These are, at best, minor inconveniences, not major flaws. I have never needed scheduled charging. I have never experienced an infotainment bug. I have had no trouble adjusting the volume. I don’t use the built-in map. The apps from my iPhone work perfectly, and along with PlugShare, have no trouble finding EA and other DCFCS.

You and I know that, but we're not reviewers looking to produce engaging content.

Again, you're talking from the perspective of an owner who had seen through the smoke.

The point of this thread was reviewers' reactions and how they might have influenced the overall public perception.

 

[ChristophW]

I think the OP is starting from the wrong premise. When Zwickau was ready to produce ID3 there was no working software. VW stored thousands of ID3s on parking lots until a semblance of working software (it wasn’t reallly working all that well) was ready. By the time the ID4 launched the software was better, but still not great. But production capacity was here, and a market opportunity too.

The lack of mature software was and is unfortunate, as are a few other hardware decisions, but sales numbers prove that VW grabbed the opportunity at the right time, drawbacks or not. Now they are an early mover in an increasingly crowded field, have quite a bit of experience under their belt, and significant production capacity worldwide.

When was the last time panel gaps hurt Tesla sales volume? You can find videos bemoaning those all over YouTube.

 

[Dougie01]

I think the OP is starting from the wrong premise. When Zwickau was ready to produce ID3 there was no working software. VW stored thousands of ID3s on parking lots until a semblance of working software (it wasn’t reallly working all that well) was ready. By the time the ID4 launched the software was better, but still not great. But production capacity was here, and a market opportunity too.

The lack of mature software was and is unfortunate, as are a few other hardware decisions, but sales numbers prove that VW grabbed the opportunity at the right time, drawbacks or not. Now they are an early mover in an increasingly crowded field, have quite a bit of experience under their belt, and significant production capacity worldwide.

When was the last time panel gaps hurt Tesla sales volume? You can find videos bemoaning those all over YouTube.

But the software that was lacking was the infotainment software. Don't all current ICE VWs have comparable systems?

 

[macb00kemdanno]

But the software that was lacking was the infotainment software. Don't all current ICE VWs have comparable systems?

Yes, and the new MK8 GTI has been similarly criticized (in the U.S.) for its infotainment and touch controls (along with the noticeable backstep in interior quality).

 

[Nai3t]

But the software that was lacking was the infotainment software. Don't all current ICE VWs have comparable systems?

They look similar, but different software according to what's been posted.

And it's not limited to infotainment. Scheduled Charging is the most obvious broken feature.

I believe VW's decision to stick with legacy modules (in use with their ICE cars) and lightly modified software is what allowed them to get the MEB to market so quickly. As much as I would have preferred to have a ground-up design (as I am sure VW would have preferred, too, in an ideal world with no time pressures), it would have taken too long. So for now we get what we've got, sort of stuck in the middle while they figure things out.

The OTA capability as a selling point must have been a necessity for VW, as they knew they would be constantly refining code as they slowly transitioned us from the patchwork of legacy software from a mishmash of vendors. I could be wrong, but it seems like the OTA system itself wasn't quite up to standards.

I really really really hope 3.1 gets this whole program back on the rails, regular OTAs become a reality, and new features become a surprising new feature to look forward to rather than a complaint crossed off the list.

 

[Plant Peon]

They look similar, but different software according to what's been posted.

And it's not limited to infotainment. Scheduled Charging is the most obvious broken feature.

I believe VW's decision to stick with legacy modules (in use with their ICE cars) and lightly modified software is what allowed them to get the MEB to market so quickly. As much as I would have preferred to have a ground-up design (as I am sure VW would have preferred, too, in an ideal world with no time pressures), it would have taken too long. So for now we get what we've got, sort of stuck in the middle while they figure things out.

The OTA capability as a selling point must have been a necessity for VW, as they knew they would be constantly refining code as they slowly transitioned us from the patchwork of legacy software from a mishmash of vendors. I could be wrong, but it seems like the OTA system itself wasn't quite up to standards.

I really really really hope 3.1 gets this whole program back on the rails, regular OTAs become a reality, and new features become a surprising new feature to look forward to rather than a complaint crossed off the list.

Just to make sure you know, the ID vehicles are not the first VWs to have OTA. The Atlas and Cross sport have OTA also as I’m sure other models do too.

 

[Nai3t]

Just to make sure you know, the ID vehicles are not the first VWs to have OTA. The Atlas and Cross sport have OTA also as I’m sure other models do too.

I didn't know that. How often do they receive updates? Is it the same process? I presume they start life with beefier 12 volt systems and didn't suffer the battery issues the MEB cars have?

 

[Plant Peon]

I didn't know that. How often do they receive updates? Is it the same process? I presume they start life with beefier 12 volt systems and didn't suffer the battery issues the MEB cars have?

I am not sure on how often, but I think they recently had one. I don’t think it is a periodic event. I think it is more about when they have a fix for some issue. But Since I saw you mention the legacy modules, I thought I’d chime in. I’m sure somewhere online there is a list of the updates if you’re interested. Probably also the models that are OTA capable.

 

[sirozha]

Are VW OTA software or firmware updates?

 

[Nai3t]

Are VW OTA software or firmware updates?

It's both.

 

[sirozha]

It's both.

That’s excellent news. Maybe they will enable one-Pedal driving for the B mode OTA.

 

[Kahlee2u]

Are VW OTA software or firmware updates?

Software only

That’s excellent news. Maybe they will enable one-Pedal driving for the B mode OTA.

It's not both. As of today they are only capable of Software. The navigation had been updated twice in mine. If they were able to do firmware, we would definitely have whatever new software version with new features last year/January/March.

 

[rbdavis808]

Well, this thread seems to have gone a bit off-OP-topic a bit, but in that misdirected vein ...

I think the next few years will be fascinating EV-wise in terms of market maturation. Tesla has had an enormous lead over everyone else (because Nissan fell asleep for a decade post-Leaf?) but their leader now seems more interested in twitting (now there's an infotainment bug) than consolidating EV market share. VW's EV parity in Europe may be about to move across the Atlantic, and Hyundai/Kia is another major manufacturer with seriously competitive product entering the market. (I'm wondering, is there any hint of Hyundai developing the same level of production in or at least export delivery to the US that VW is on the brink of making?)

I agree with another poster's comment that VW fans should not be disingenuous about its flaws, and neither should they be minimizing appreciation of the competition's advantages. Halving DCFC charging time is a big deal (think how much larger the EV market would grow if this became widespread), and V2L and one-pedal driving are non-trivial pluses as well. Hopefully VW will keep up in this regard. I assume a switch to 800v will not happen until the next-gen platform comes out, but it seems like these other things could be added to ID.x by MY24 at least.

 

[serious.sam.4all]

2° Drop your friends and find new ones

VW sells every ID4 they can make - what does that tell you about a 'marketing disaster'? It tells you that there isn't one. And if you are getting an ID4 and are not comfortable to tell your friends because they will challenge you, well that's up to you (albeit weird...).

My answer to the OP, if you care what your friends say about your car choices, just buy what they will approve. Personally, I don’t care what other people think about what I drive. I test drove an ID.4 after I test drove a Model Y, and I liked the ID.4 better.

I think you guys are taking it wrong. I am talking about my friends(regular people) who have not driven one or booked one, only info they have about car is through YouTube reviews. As I mentioned in the post, they don't even know I have booked one, when I told them my experience, they were surprised, couple of them also want to go for test drive and may be book one once booking opens as specs vs price seems really good with ID4

As title of my post suggests, its marketing fault and not the product fault. Its duty of marketing department to convey proper message. Good marketing is when you convince people the product they are buying is even better than what it actually is, but with ID4 its the other way around, product is better than what people are believed to think it is. I feel if they had release FE with AWD instead of slower RWD, First impression would be different. Weather you feel its good/bad/correct/incorrect all reviewers compare it with Tesla and as soon as they touch infotainment, its slow, try to accelerate, its among the slowest accelerating EV and they loose interest. It seems unfinished product with that slow infotainment (Also most of the reviewers say that, it should be fixed soon with update).

I still have my booking, it shows I am interested in getting one. It is a big hit which also suggests many people are interested in it. In my case, I watched IONIQ5 videos on my social media feeds, they gave it to so many reviewers which kept boasting about its features and style and that made me interested in getting an EV (I was thinking about GLA250 before this), upon searching I found ID4 which looked good as well. I did not read or watch any reviews. Just booked test drive, liked it and booked it. I was thinking to book IONIQ5 as well and then do research on which one to get and cancel the other one, but when I looked at IONIQ5 it felt like hatch back, seating position was really low and had some customer service disaster at Hyundai which made me not book IONIQ5. It was Hyundai marketing who made me interested in getting an EV, they had amazing 30 minute video on their website which showed each and every feature of car vs VW had nothing like that on their website just short 1 sentence detail about feature, no official detailed video about features, so you have to rely on reviewer to check it and their experience was very different than mine, at least in terms of acceleration and sluggishness of screen. So to me its a marketing disaster!

 

[serious.sam.4all]

I feel the same as you, and don't forget VW had a second chance -- a second round of reviews last October leading up to the launch of the AWD models. They shoulda/coulda had some new software out by then to show the US reviewers an customer base, even if it was the 2.3 OTA . But "should/coulda" doesn't mean squat if they simply couldn't produce.

I don't know the right metaphor, but it's pretty clear that VW has been hanging on just enough to get by without suffering a major disaster. The car is "good enough," the software just passable, and the market conditions perfect to make it not a big deal (because they're having no trouble selling every car they can produce).

I think the other saving grace is that by and large, owners like their ID.4s as-is, countering the "slow and laggy" reviewer narrative. I want 3.1, but I am honestly 95% content with mine the way it is.

Face it, 3.1 won't make the ID.4 any quicker off the line, it won't make the infotainment any "high-techier," and it won't install two additional window switches. Not a single reviewer I watched criticized the broken scheduled charging, and nobody really got into the lack of battery pre-heating for a scheduled charger, and most glossed over the crappy nav and DCFC location finding.

So VW took some flack but somehow ducked a direct hit, and somehow a year later doesn't seem to be suffering from it. Not exactly a lucky year for VW, but at least something went their way.

I kind of agree with you, 1 year is more than adequate time to fix simple issues. Responsiveness of screen is first impression, where they have failed. At our company we have stopped releasing software in the past when it felt just a bit laggy even on slow PCs because of hardware limitation. Navigation also seems not perfect compared to current EVs but I am just keeping hope, it can be improved with Update when they release it.

AWD is fast enough for me and it feels really snappy, it may be slower than tesla but It more than enough for me. I have not driven RWD so cant comment but 8 sec 0-60 is slow or comparable to ICE vehicle and not EV.

I hope they improve charging speed, that new charging curve with 3.1 seems better but with hardware limitations it will never be able to catch with current EVs until VW does some upgrade so I am ok with what we have and whatever they can do to improve it through software

I also agree VW has advantage because of current market situation, if all cars are available rite away, I feel VW may face head wind with orders. As many competitor products seems better on paper. That is one of the reason why I created this post, their marketing is not doing enough. Currently VW has a few issues but there are a lot more ID4 in market then their competitors so obviously issues will be more. Only time will tell who makes it though.

 

[Tinman]

IIRC, VW had a nice video on scheduled charging.

 

[Nai3t]

I kind of agree with you, 1 year is more than adequate time to fix simple issues. ..

At face value, "simple."

But I know VW is neither stupid nor lazy. Conservative and careful are more apt descriptions. If somebody wants to label them incompetent in software I would disagree, but it's perfectly understandable where that notion originates.

My point being, I'm confident VW would have fixed this sooner if the could have. I don't think there's anything simple about it, but I have to give them the benefit of the doubt that's there's much more to this than "modifying some code."

Given they're troubles, I'm happy 2.1 has been mostly stable.

 

[serious.sam.4all]

At face value, "simple."

But I know VW is neither stupid nor lazy. Conservative and careful are more apt descriptions. If somebody wants to label them incompetent in software I would disagree, but it's perfectly understandable where that notion originates.

My point being, I'm confident VW would have fixed this sooner if the could have. I don't think there's anything simple about it, but I have to give them the benefit of the doubt that's there's much more to this than "modifying some code."

Given they're troubles, I'm happy 2.1 has been mostly stable.

VW is one of giants of Car industry and they know what they are doing and they must be knowing what is causing them to not release updates and fixing bugs.

I feel its hardware, because of chip shortage they went with available slower hardware to make it available in time and that is where problem originates. As I noticed 2021 AWD screen was a bit slow but not seconds slow which can be seen in some FE reviews. Someone on this forum mentioned they updated the hardware. So I feel like many other things holding them not to release updates are hardware related.

 

[serious.sam.4all]

IIRC, VW had a nice video on scheduled charging.

Which is not working with current software. People are waiting for over a year to do this.

I am not saying there are no videos, they are not readily available. When you are selling something, everything should be on your product page, why do you need to go on google and search for videos? I looked at ARIA/Ioniq5 websites and I know about features and how to use that without getting off their website. Even Tesla has nothing on their website but they are in different league at this point, their fan boys do the marketing for them.