[ericy]

Coolant temperature: 215 °C
Intake air temperature: 215 °C
Ambient air pressure: 2550 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 11.601 V

Some of the numbers just don't make sense. The temperatures are so far beyond plausible that the only way for it to be correct would be for you to be in a literal oven.. The air pressure is over double what it should be. Maybe undervoltage? I can look at my own scan to see what it reports for temperatures.

 

[Andy at Ross-Tech.com]

@ericy I take the freeze frame data with a grain of salt (sometimes a large one).

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Coolant temperature: 215 °C
Intake air temperature: 215 °C
Ambient air pressure: 2550 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 11.601 V

Some of the numbers just don't make sense. The temperatures are so far beyond plausible that the only way for it to be correct would be for you to be in a literal oven.. The air pressure is over double what it should be. Maybe undervoltage? I can look at my own scan to see what it reports for temperatures.

When there is issue with 12V voltage or negative (ground) it will make this type of freeze frames.
If it is true it will have all electronic fried.
But Terminal 30 is the one that has to be checked against electric blue print and where it is getting supply and if there is other things that make make voltage dropping.
Ambient air pressure will be all over the board when voltage and ground are not right.

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

Coolant temperature: 215 °C
Intake air temperature: 215 °C
Ambient air pressure: 2550 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 11.601 V

Some of the numbers just don't make sense. The temperatures are so far beyond plausible that the only way for it to be correct would be for you to be in a literal oven.. The air pressure is over double what it should be. Maybe undervoltage? I can look at my own scan to see what it reports for temperatures.

When there is issue with 12V voltage or negative (ground) it will make this type of freeze frames.
If it is true it will have all electronic fried.
But Terminal 30 is the one that has to be checked against electric blue print and where it is getting supply and if there is other things that make make voltage dropping.
Ambient air pressure will be all over the board when voltage and ground are not right.

 

[Andy at Ross-Tech.com]

I don't think the gibberish freeze frame is only when there are problems with the 12V battery. For example, before any problems surfaced, using both ODIS and VCDS, the U1229 fault in 01-Engine showed:

Coolant temperature 215 °C
Intake air temperature 215 °C
Ambient air pressure 2550 mbar
Voltage terminal 30 12.988 V

I have seen this in other cars too.

 

[2928]

Well, could those be fields that are holdovers from ICE cars. I mean why would an EV measure air pressure and temperature? And air intake to what? Even coolant could refer to engine coolant (water temp)… EV coolant values may be stored elsewhere...

 

[Andy at Ross-Tech.com]

@d287 that sounds plausible. When I had a 2012 Passat TDI with a manual transmission there were measuring values in the engine controller with values like:

Transmission input speed 10000.0 /min
Requested transmission torque 1000.0 Nm
Calculated reducing transmission intervention torque 1000.0 Nm

 

[ericy]

e the freeze frame data with a grain of salt (sometimes a large one).

I had a freeze frame from my own car (I didn't have the "Electrical System Failure" on this car):

Coolant temperature: 215 °C
Intake air temperature: 215 °C
Ambient air pressure: 2550 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 12.187 V

The only major difference is that the voltage seems far more normal. The temperature and pressures seem screwy in mine as well.

 

[Andy at Ross-Tech.com]

Captain's Log: Day 2 of VW ID.4-less-ness.

I emailed the dealer and they have not had a chance to look at it yet but should be able to later today. The Car-Net continues to say voltage too low but it almost responds with that too fast, like the last ping it got from the car on Monday might have told it that and it's not going to check again until it gets another ping from the car.

 

[Andy at Ross-Tech.com]

Captain's Log: Day 3 of VW ID.4-less-ness.

The dealer has been responding to my emails with daily updates but unfortunately has not had a chance to look at it yet and the soonest loaner available is Tuesday (but I asked them to let me know if any become available due to cancellations). Car-Net still shows 12V too low, but I don't trust it, as described above.

 

[2928]

I'm curious if this could be resolved with a new 12v battery? It's possible yours is defective or died early... and the low 12v voltage could be messing with the various computer systems. I really do wish they could find a way to eliminate the 12v battery altogether from these cars - even Tesla hasn't figured out how, however...

 

[fireboy92k]

I really do wish they could find a way to eliminate the 12v battery altogether from these cars - even Tesla hasn't figured out how, however...

Yeah, nobody trusts leaving the main high voltage battery connected. So while there isn't a 'starter' in the ICE sense, there really IS in the sense that something has to be there to engage the systems that isolate the main battery. Maybe we will get down to a smaller one as the systems get better at meeting peak demands of the 12V systems as well where the battery serves as a buffer. But I suspect it will be awhile.

 

[ddx]

Or can the 12V battery be another lithium-ion battery that has better longevity and performance? Although probably way more $$$$ to replace and more involved, and they already require coding just to replace the standard 12v battery.

 

[Andy at Ross-Tech.com]

Fun fact, Porsche has offered a Li-Ion battery for over a decade ... at a cost:

The Cost Of Additional Porsche (Li-ion) Lightness: $132/lb.

Never one to shy away from expensive options, Porsche has announced that beginning in January 2010, a lithium-ion starter battery will be optional in the 911 GT3, GT 3 RS, and Boxster Spyder. Porsche is the first automaker to offer a li-ion SLI (starting, lighting ignition) battery, and given...

www.thetruthaboutcars.com

Only $3,264.09!

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I believe the vehicle needs to be coded to tell it the charging characteristics of these compared to a traditional lead-acid.

 

[voxel]

I really do wish they could find a way to eliminate the 12v battery altogether from these cars - even Tesla hasn't figured out how, however...

From Sandy Munro's videos, he speaks about moving to 50V electronics but many suppliers are stuck on 12V electronic designs. It's cascading effect if you change one electronic component to 50V... then you either have step-up or step-down converters to handle 12V and 50V electronic components. Wires get thinner moving up to 50V but I'm sure the chips aren't cheaper if they have to handle 50V (I could be wrong).

We are stuck with legacy components and legacy designs.

 

[voxel]

Fun fact, Porsche has offered a Li-Ion battery for over a decade ... at a cost:

The Cost Of Additional Porsche (Li-ion) Lightness: $132/lb.

Never one to shy away from expensive options, Porsche has announced that beginning in January 2010, a lithium-ion starter battery will be optional in the 911 GT3, GT 3 RS, and Boxster Spyder. Porsche is the first automaker to offer a li-ion SLI (starting, lighting ignition) battery, and given...

www.thetruthaboutcars.com

Only $3,264.09!

Shop Genuine OEM Porsche Parts and Accessories | GetPorscheSilverSpringParts

Shop Genuine OEM Porsche Parts, Accessories, and Driver's Selection with deeply discounted wholesale pricing, Porsche factory warranty, world class customer support, and fast shipping to your doorstep! Questions? Contact us at gethelp@getporschesilverspringparts.com.

www.getporscheparts.com

I believe the vehicle needs to be coded to tell it the charging characteristics of these compared to a traditional lead-acid.

Back then Li-ions were REALLY expensive. You could build your own 12V car battery made from 18650 vape batteries for "cheap" now.

And yeah the charging system will need to know the new min/max voltage range (i.e 12.6V is fully charged and anything below 11.5ish is very low). I doubt end-users like us can program that into the car.

 

[2928]

Yeah, to be clear, I wasn't suggesting we replace our AGM batteries with Li-Ion batteries, although that's possible (and actually Andy should know as much as anyone here about how to reprogram a VW group car to support a different battery profile, since Ross Tech makes the software to do it ... but I was merely musing on the silliness of having a giant battery under the car and then needing another smaller battery to run all the computers and so forth and engage the relays to allow the big battery to function.

 

[hilld]

Fun fact, Porsche has offered a Li-Ion battery for over a decade ... at a cost:

The Cost Of Additional Porsche (Li-ion) Lightness: $132/lb.

Never one to shy away from expensive options, Porsche has announced that beginning in January 2010, a lithium-ion starter battery will be optional in the 911 GT3, GT 3 RS, and Boxster Spyder. Porsche is the first automaker to offer a li-ion SLI (starting, lighting ignition) battery, and given...

www.thetruthaboutcars.com

Only $3,264.09!

Shop Genuine OEM Porsche Parts and Accessories | GetPorscheSilverSpringParts

Shop Genuine OEM Porsche Parts, Accessories, and Driver's Selection with deeply discounted wholesale pricing, Porsche factory warranty, world class customer support, and fast shipping to your doorstep! Questions? Contact us at gethelp@getporschesilverspringparts.com.

www.getporscheparts.com

I believe the vehicle needs to be coded to tell it the charging characteristics of these compared to a traditional lead-acid.

My 2015 BMW M4 convertible had the Li-ion battery rather than an AGM. The replacement cost is $2500. The only reason I say had, is that I sold the car about a year ago.

I did quite a bit of reading on the battery replacement procedure as I had a warning about a battery issue while owning the car, turned out to be a fluke, but nonetheless, the replacement of the battery required a computer connection to tell the car what size and type of battery was installed to adjust the charging profile of the car.

 

[voxel]

Yeah, to be clear, I wasn't suggesting we replace our AGM batteries with Li-Ion batteries, although that's possible (and actually Andy should know as much as anyone here about how to reprogram a VW group car to support a different battery profile, since Ross Tech makes the software to do it ... but I was merely musing on the silliness of having a giant battery under the car and then needing another smaller battery to run all the computers and so forth and engage the relays to allow the big battery to function.

It may sound silly but I'm 100000000% against running the electronics powered by a 400V 82 kWh battery. One burnt out electronic/chip (like the 400V to 12V regulator) and suddenly you have 400V running through the entire car - frying everything and the driver.

Even 50V is borderline because that's close to the voltage that causes heartbeat irregularities (60V might be the official starting point).

 

[hilld]

^^ So meals on wheels ^^

Yes, keep the car systems that humans touch a safe voltage.