Easy fix, stop offering free charging. Several automakers offer a certain dollar or kWh instead. These owners tend to charge at home.

 

One year ago we took the ID.4 to Palm Springs and back for an event. This year we repeated the trip with somewhat different results. If you just want the drama and near violence read the Sunday charging experiences or the summary at the end.

Thursday: Phoenix to Palm Springs
Stop 1: Quartzite, Arizona Electrify America at Loves Truckstop
Yes this sis still one of the worst EA stations around. Screens have huge scorch marks from sitting in the desert sun and are all but unreadable during the day. Needs a shade cover.
The 4 chargers are cramped and a challenge to back into as the parking lot is always packed full of travelers.
It doesn't help that the 20-30 Tesla Superchargers across the way are mostly empty and easy to access.
Fortunately on a Thursday 2 of the 4 chargers are working and there is only one other EV there so we can charge immediately.

Stop 2: Indio, California Electrify America at Wal-Mart
2 of the 4 chargers being serviced when we arrive. Able to charge immediately at one of the functioning chargers.
Charging limited to 50kW speeds. I have never been to this location when speeds were not limited.
This is the odd Wal-Mart where bathrooms are all the way at the rear of the store.

Sunday: Palm Springs to Phoenix
Stop 1: Palm Springs, California Electrify America at Target
A Hyundai Ionic 5 nearly ran me off the road at 7:00AM Sunday Morning to "beat me" to the chargers. Almost crashed into my front fender to cut me off in the turn lane to the Target parking lot. Car had CA plates and a Palm Springs license plate frame so theoretically was a local. The driver got out of his car plugged in and sat on the hood smoking a cigarette while his Uber/Lyft lights glowed from the dashboard.
The other 3 chargers were full so I started a que in the parking lot. Before long 4-6 more EV's arrived.
When it was my turn I noticed the man at the charger next to me was very frustrated with the EA support person he was speaking to on his phone. Then I discovered why, CC card reader and NFC reader was down. I was able to initiate a charging session using the EA app on the 3rd attempt. 10-15 minutes later the man was still chatting with EA tech support.
In addition to the card readers being down charging was limited to about 65kW. I verified this with others charging. Regardless of SoC or make/model no one was getting more juice.
By the time I was done charging there were over 10 cars waiting to charge. Luckily at this location it is pretty easy to create an orderly cue and other than Ionic 5 guy I did not see anyone acting like an idiot.

Stop 2: Quartzite, Arizona Electrify America at Loves Truckstop
Sunday afternoons are the worst at this location as people are trying to get home and are generally tired and in a hurry. Lines can become very long and disorderly.
Luckily we arrived with 2 chargers open. As we started backing into a charger a woman jumped out of the Kia EV next to us and grabbed the plug for the charger we were backing into. My wife hopped out the and asked if the charger was broken and the lady erupted in a fury of anger and swearwords I will not repeat here. She is shouting at my wife to "mind her own **** business" and even called my wife a "Karen" which was somehow funny and sad at the same time. My wife was visibly shaken by the interaction with this woman and clearly did not feel safe/comfortable at this location. I think if we could have, we would have simply left to avoid this dangerous woman. But we still needed to charge.
I managed to back into the now only open charger and being ready for the burned marks on the screen was able to initiate a charge before going into the truck stop to grab a water.
By the time I returned a BMW iX, 2 Mustang Mach-E's, an Ionic 5, and a BMW sedan EV had arrived and the woman who was blocking one charger and using another was having an all-out shouting match with 2 of the car owners as well as screaming at the EA representative on her phone because apparently she had still not been successful in initiating a charge. After much shouting and several people walking away in dismay the iX was able to park at the charger the Kia woman was using and plug into the station where she was parked but not using.
One of the Mach-E owner's wives took it upon herself to become the "charging police" and direct traffic and establish and order for those waiting. Admirable but not everyone appreciated her busy body approach.
By the time we left there were 5-6 cars qued to charge and the Kia woman was still causing problems and threating to "kill people" if they didn't mind their own business. This woman was blocking a working charger others could use while using the one next to her. She also stopped someone else's charge session and tried to reach their plug to her car. Complete chaos. Add to the mix several homeless people hanging about and this EA station starts to feel fairly dangerous and sketchy. We were happy to get out of there and be on our way.

SUMMARY:
I've said it before, the EA experience brings out the absolute worst in some people. There are simply not enough chargers. The chargers they do have tend to be damaged, broken, or slow. Many of the locations are cramped, not well maintained and dangerous day or night but especially at night. I've seen bad behavior in the past with people jockeying for position at the chargers but this was the first time I saw people actively arguing and almost fighting at an EA station. First time I have experienced other EV drivers driving aggressively/dangerously to "beat" other people to the chargers and almost cause an accident in doing so.

Is it only a matter of time before someone is hurt or worse at an EA charing station? If so what kind of lawsuits and liability are EA and their hosts like Wal-Mart, Target, and Truck Stops looking at? It seems we have reached a tipping point where the lack of charging infrastructure is more than an inconvenience, it can cause people to act selfish or lash-out in life threatening ways. Is this the EV future we were promised? Something has to change, EA has to do better or the Supercharger network is going to need to grow and open up faster than planned before petty arguments degrade into something much worse.

Wow, seems to be getting worse by the day. I’ve traveled Phoenix to LA a 4,5 times a year since I got my FE and the last trip in April and to while it wasn’t as bad as yours I did have to wait every time I had to charge which feels bad enough so it discourages me to do it again.

I seem to be more inclined to take I8 as there are more locations and fewer EV’s

I think I would consider other networks at this point like the one in Blythe but for sure I’m totally unhappy with this situation.

 

One year ago we took the ID.4 to Palm Springs and back for an event. This year we repeated the trip with somewhat different results. If you just want the drama and near violence read the Sunday charging experiences or the summary at the end.

Thursday: Phoenix to Palm Springs
Stop 1: Quartzite, Arizona Electrify America at Loves Truckstop
Yes this sis still one of the worst EA stations around. Screens have huge scorch marks from sitting in the desert sun and are all but unreadable during the day. Needs a shade cover.
The 4 chargers are cramped and a challenge to back into as the parking lot is always packed full of travelers.
It doesn't help that the 20-30 Tesla Superchargers across the way are mostly empty and easy to access.
Fortunately on a Thursday 2 of the 4 chargers are working and there is only one other EV there so we can charge immediately.

Stop 2: Indio, California Electrify America at Wal-Mart
2 of the 4 chargers being serviced when we arrive. Able to charge immediately at one of the functioning chargers.
Charging limited to 50kW speeds. I have never been to this location when speeds were not limited.
This is the odd Wal-Mart where bathrooms are all the way at the rear of the store.

Sunday: Palm Springs to Phoenix
Stop 1: Palm Springs, California Electrify America at Target
A Hyundai Ionic 5 nearly ran me off the road at 7:00AM Sunday Morning to "beat me" to the chargers. Almost crashed into my front fender to cut me off in the turn lane to the Target parking lot. Car had CA plates and a Palm Springs license plate frame so theoretically was a local. The driver got out of his car plugged in and sat on the hood smoking a cigarette while his Uber/Lyft lights glowed from the dashboard.
The other 3 chargers were full so I started a que in the parking lot. Before long 4-6 more EV's arrived.
When it was my turn I noticed the man at the charger next to me was very frustrated with the EA support person he was speaking to on his phone. Then I discovered why, CC card reader and NFC reader was down. I was able to initiate a charging session using the EA app on the 3rd attempt. 10-15 minutes later the man was still chatting with EA tech support.
In addition to the card readers being down charging was limited to about 65kW. I verified this with others charging. Regardless of SoC or make/model no one was getting more juice.
By the time I was done charging there were over 10 cars waiting to charge. Luckily at this location it is pretty easy to create an orderly cue and other than Ionic 5 guy I did not see anyone acting like an idiot.

Stop 2: Quartzite, Arizona Electrify America at Loves Truckstop
Sunday afternoons are the worst at this location as people are trying to get home and are generally tired and in a hurry. Lines can become very long and disorderly.
Luckily we arrived with 2 chargers open. As we started backing into a charger a woman jumped out of the Kia EV next to us and grabbed the plug for the charger we were backing into. My wife hopped out the and asked if the charger was broken and the lady erupted in a fury of anger and swearwords I will not repeat here. She is shouting at my wife to "mind her own **** business" and even called my wife a "Karen" which was somehow funny and sad at the same time. My wife was visibly shaken by the interaction with this woman and clearly did not feel safe/comfortable at this location. I think if we could have, we would have simply left to avoid this dangerous woman. But we still needed to charge.
I managed to back into the now only open charger and being ready for the burned marks on the screen was able to initiate a charge before going into the truck stop to grab a water.
By the time I returned a BMW iX, 2 Mustang Mach-E's, an Ionic 5, and a BMW sedan EV had arrived and the woman who was blocking one charger and using another was having an all-out shouting match with 2 of the car owners as well as screaming at the EA representative on her phone because apparently she had still not been successful in initiating a charge. After much shouting and several people walking away in dismay the iX was able to park at the charger the Kia woman was using and plug into the station where she was parked but not using.
One of the Mach-E owner's wives took it upon herself to become the "charging police" and direct traffic and establish and order for those waiting. Admirable but not everyone appreciated her busy body approach.
By the time we left there were 5-6 cars qued to charge and the Kia woman was still causing problems and threating to "kill people" if they didn't mind their own business. This woman was blocking a working charger others could use while using the one next to her. She also stopped someone else's charge session and tried to reach their plug to her car. Complete chaos. Add to the mix several homeless people hanging about and this EA station starts to feel fairly dangerous and sketchy. We were happy to get out of there and be on our way.

SUMMARY:
I've said it before, the EA experience brings out the absolute worst in some people. There are simply not enough chargers. The chargers they do have tend to be damaged, broken, or slow. Many of the locations are cramped, not well maintained and dangerous day or night but especially at night. I've seen bad behavior in the past with people jockeying for position at the chargers but this was the first time I saw people actively arguing and almost fighting at an EA station. First time I have experienced other EV drivers driving aggressively/dangerously to "beat" other people to the chargers and almost cause an accident in doing so.

Is it only a matter of time before someone is hurt or worse at an EA charing station? If so what kind of lawsuits and liability are EA and their hosts like Wal-Mart, Target, and Truck Stops looking at? It seems we have reached a tipping point where the lack of charging infrastructure is more than an inconvenience, it can cause people to act selfish or lash-out in life threatening ways. Is this the EV future we were promised? Something has to change, EA has to do better or the Supercharger network is going to need to grow and open up faster than planned before petty arguments degrade into something much worse.

Wow. This sounds horrible. My last trip to phoenix from Palm Springs I skipped the quartzite location on the way back and charged at Blythe. I’ve decided I will take my ice car on trips to AZ until they do something about the charging on that route. I wish Tesla would add magic docks to their location there.

 

This continues to drive me bonkers that EA gets all this grief yet friggin Ford and Hyundai and BMW and Polestar can't be bothered to contribute a lousy dime into addressing this pain point that is acting as a detriment to their EV sales. Lunacy!

 

The ride share driver smoking while charging and using free charging for commercial use (against the terms of the charging agreement) fits a 'type' here in LA who are very rude and think they own the chargers.

I agree with above, the free charging plans are definitely contributory but the shortage of chargers is far more important factor for the behavior.

 

How do we know his charging was free?

 

I can't believe my EV ownership experience in Montana (I am 115 miles from an EA charger) has been so pleasant compared to this circus. I figured California would have it easier.

 

This entire thread (and the topic in general in many EV-related forums) should be filtered by location. My charging experiences in California (a year ago) were pretty stressful. But in all the other states between California and Ohio it was painess. (MS a notable exception, except that you don't even hope for a fast charger there, so no stress!)

Colorado is easy-peasy these days.

 

I mostly charge only at night.. never run into issues. I can imagine road tripping with EA chargers during peak holidays must be utter hell.

 

Wow. I dont remember the salesman tell me that going to a public charging station could be Mad Max meets the Hunger Games. In fact, he described it as a rather collegial experience, like minded folks with a little time on their hands getting together to compare experience, share tips, perhaps sharing their vision of where things are headed etc. (which, has indeed happened to me a few times) But as the ratio of EVs on the road to charging stations available increases, and allowing for preferential selection for "free" charging stations, I can see how the circumstances are being created for things to get tense. When there is a gas shortage and ICE people get desparate, there are instances of fisticuffs, this is no different. People looking to get into EVs might not know a thing about J1772 or Chademo or level this or that, but stories like that will scare them off.

 

hopefully this will start hitting their sales so they will find some urgency to resolve it.
I would not buy a CCS car today and will advise anyone against it.

 

"The 4 chargers are cramped and a challenge to back into as the parking lot is always packed full of travelers. It doesn't help that the 20-30 Tesla Superchargers across the way are mostly empty and easy to access. "

Oh I got a kick out of this. You ever go to a charging station where there is a line of like a dozen Tesla chargers on on side, half to 3/4 full, and CCS on the other side of the lot. The Teslas are hooked up, charging away, and have a great view of the CCS users on the other side. We come in, try to figure out which one is working, pull in, realize the cable wont reach, have to back out, back in. Then we are outside fumbling with our phones to get the right app up, or playing charger selection roulette because sometimes the units are not numbered, and then while it works most of the time when it doesnt we have to call and are on hold... its like the Teslas are some kind of public jury watching you, silently judging, smirking, laughing....

 

yep and while lining up you can see gas guzzling trucks fueling up, going inside for a quick bite and looking down on us when they’re leaving.
Great advertisement for EV transition.

 

rivian recently opened a bank of fast chargers across the freeway from the quartzite EA site, but it is rivian only.

 

No, but BMW buyers are after the look of prosperity. A Honda Fit will get you from here to there, isn’t that what cars are very basically supposed to do?
I guess living in $1.5 million McMansion with 3 car garage and driving a Honda Fit is an oxymoron. 🤣😂🤣

 

Or maybe it'd be more of making a statement.

https://news.yahoo.com/news/woz-getting-chevy-bolt-ev-arrives-today-130000346.html

 

EA free charging is pretty much a scam now.
Manufacturers should stop paying for it and force EA to survive on the proceeds of customers charges.
The feds should introduce a regulation for a minimal level of service before users can be charged.
EA needs a fundamental change and this funding agreement with VW seems to just prolong the situation.
Perhaps if they go into bankruptcy all the manufacturers can take over and make it work as their life depends on it.

 

Manufacturers should stop paying for it and force EA to survive on the proceeds of customers charges.

Manufacturers should take investment stakes in EA and help build it into a charging network that serves everybody. Their business friends on it.

 

I am pretty convinced VW and other ICE makers don't want to provide an option for smooth and convenient EV charging. They pretend they are building a network, but in reality they are sabotaging charging infrastructure.

They will try to do the same to Tesla supercharger network, so Tesla should be very careful how to deal with these companies.

 

that’s easy … charge whatever the market bears

 

I am pretty convinced VW and other ICE makers don't want to provide an option for smooth and convenient EV charging.

EA / VW have built an incredible coast to coast network in an extremely short amount of time that has served ALL manufacturers well. And I mean that. Without the EA footprint dating back to 2021, I believe non-Tesla US EV sales would be only a fraction is what they are.

Would you put your life savings in it after what you’ve read here and experienced with EA?

My savings? No. But for the billions of dollars auto companies are pouring into EV development, by now the signs are clear that they should have been investing in charging long ago.

The fact that they are planning their own networks seems to indicate disagreements with I assume VW.
So at this point VW needs to get out of the way.

Talk is cheap.

EA was founded in late 2016.

Publicly unveiled Jan 2017.

1st station May 2018.

60 stations in operation by the end of 2018.

How many EVs were on the road in 2018? How many were VWs?

The other automakers are "planning?!"

 

EA / VW have built an incredible coast to coast network in an extremely short amount of time that has served ALL manufacturers well. And I mean that. Without the EA footprint dating back to 2021, I believe non-Tesla US EV sales would be only a fraction is what they are.

They did, but I guess they had a change of heart when they could not bring EV manufacturing cost down as they planned. It is very clear that network expansion is not a priority for them anymore.

They know free charging causing big problems for their network. Why are they still offering free charging? Are they idiots? No, they want the network to have problems.

Now they are all rushing to Tesla network, hoping they will be able to ruin that as well. If I were Tesla, I would not provide same level access to other brands, and I am pretty sure they will leverage their network somehow that the ICE makers are not anticipating now.

 

It's not about making excuses for EA or for VW.

VW had the foresight coming out of Dieselgate to offer up an investment in a $2B nationwide charging network as an alternative for a straight monetary fine. That's $2B over 10 years, with their funding plan all laid out for everybody to see, and VW has kicked an in additional couple hindered million and still has a few years to go.

So they did it because the "had to" but besides the Dieselgate component, there's (1) a potential return on investment waaaayyyy down the road, and (b) the ability to sell more EVs because of it.

Now unfortunately (b) also applies to all of the other players in the EV space. So if Brand X wants to pony up for a free EA charging plan, in order to sell an EV, and in the hopes of creating a paying EA customer down the road, then that's investment in the brand. No two ways about it, EA is a money losing proposition up front, but any incoming cash flow is welcome.

So forget about making excuses for EA and VW for just a minute -- they're $2B in the hole and cash strapped. What's Ford's excuse? What's Hyundai's excuse? What are any other EV makers (besides Tesla) contributing to the EV charging landscape to make EV ownership less painful for everybody? VW is the one player who took action, and their motivation doesn't matter. Because Ford is crying, GM is crying, Stellantis is crying, but if they had actually followed VW's lead and built up similar sized charging networks in cooperation with VW or in their own alliances, we likely wouldn't be in this mess.

Oh, an the NACS deal probably wouldn't have been a thing and all industry players wouldn't be staring down the barrel of a 2 year-plus charging port changeover which is ultimately going to cost them sales, cost them development money, and feed new sales to Tesla.

 

common sense would have been for VW to predict the situation we are in today and come up with serious plans in 2021.
I don’t know what the discussions were between the manufacturers but you would expect that at least the Germans would get togheter to counteract Tesla and what is happening instead is they are surendering to Tesla.
Despite the obvious problems not only providing a plan to remediate the situation they don’t even bother not to upsell the free charging.
VW had the foresight I agree but they are failing both at developing the EA as well their main EV business.
As crazy as it sounds it seems that they are sabotaging their business intentionally.

 

There are simply not enough chargers. The chargers they do have tend to be damaged, broken, or slow. Many of the locations are cramped, not well maintained and dangerous day or night

Just wanted to say that is such a succinctly accurate summary of EA stations, and matches the experiences I've had traveling along the I-95 corridor in the southeast.

I also appreciated the part about staring across the street at the Supercharger station that's mostly empty, but I'm unable to access.

 

Remember that dumb video with the EA CEO traveling the states as though it’s a slight hiccup when in fact it’s a plague.

Sad to drool over Tesla chargers, and VW is the only company that still hasn’t joined NACS. 🤦‍♂️

 

EA is not down $2B cause they still are bringing in $$ even if at loss.
Except for timed charging, I think a tiered pricing model based on demand, TOD, manufacturer… If you’re in a hurry you might pay more per kWh 🤷‍♂️.
I’m pretty sure the Tesla SFTW engineers could come up with a plan that would meet tripping EVs and commuting EVs who find themselves close to total discharge.

 

EA is not down $2B cause they still are bringing in $$ even if at loss. Except for timed charging, I think a tiered pricing model based on demand, TOD, manufacturer… If you’re in a hurry you might pay more per kWh 🤷‍♂️. I’m pretty sure the Tesla SFTW engineers could come up with a plan that would meet tripping EVs and commuting EVs who find themselves close to total discharge.

I've had 2 ID.4's and now I have a Tesla Y Long Range 330 range.it is like night and day charging tells you the cost at each charger to save and just plug in it works every time no messing with your phone to get the EA charger to work if you lucky. Love the Tesla so truly happy now. Plus so very easy to buy on line one's that are inventory you get a discount. I saved $2060 and got the $7500 tax credit. Just got back from a road trip from Lake Havasu to St George it was a breeze 19 cent a KW in Vegas took 15 minutes to charge at 171 kw. Just like a gas station time. https://ts.la/david124057

 

Wow! This is just another reason I haven't gone full BEV, thanks for the reminder. Fortunately or unfortunately I have a very short fuse and very protective of my wife. I could very much see myself letting my rage take over and at least throwing punches if I or my wife are pelleted with insults like this situation. If it got worse I could also see myself going full on trying to bust the aholes jaw but I'd also be hauled away with assult charges against me. I would consider that a win for me but I lost the war.

 

I seriously doubt that the other manufacturers did not attempt to work with VW/EA and from what I can read they are fed up with them.
I think time is running out for EA and they are squeezing the last dollar they can.
Let’s see what the NACS era brings.

 

The other companies are competition. We are customers. We know listening is not VW/EA’s virtue.

 

Interesting article How automakers' disappointment in Electrify America drove them into Tesla’s arms

 

Interesting article How automakers' disappointment in Electrify America drove them into Tesla’s arms

From that article:

In other words, non-Tesla automakers have had it with EA. Initial hopes that EA would provide a new, large-scale, nationwide network of fast charging stations have now curdled into a desire to see EA out of the game altogether—with “lots of bad blood” directed at the VW Group as a whole. One engineer and one executive even suggested that Volkswagen deliberately did a subpar job. “Remember Dieselgate?” said one. “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice…”

It astounds me how much bad will VW has been willing to generate.

 

It astounds me how much blame VW is taking for the EA charging network.

VW is a business, it is not incumbent on them to provide the basic infrastructure their competitors need to sell EVs.
EA is a business, if they fail to provide a viable product and good customer support, take your business to a competitor (wait, there isn't one) and let them go out of business.

The "non-Tesla have had it with EA" is ridiculous. They wanted to reap the benefits of VWs investment without contributing a dime of their own money.

 

EA is a business, if they fail to provide a viable product and good customer support, take your business to a competitor (wait, there isn't one) and let them go out of business.

Ford fixed that.

 

We are living in a highly litigious society so when you provide a public service you should demonstrate due diligence.
The only other national EV charging network is Tesla so that is the standard to measure against.
I’m sure the manufacturers can claim losses because they had to switch.
I suspect VW should have enough experience with this.

 

We are living in a highly litigious society so when you provide a public service you should demonstrate due diligence.
The only other national EV charging network is Tesla so that is the standard to measure against.
I’m sure the manufacturers can claim losses because they had to switch.
I suspect VW should have enough experience with this.

The risk was worth the reward for VW. Had they gotten away with dieselgate they would have saved more than they paid off of EA which won’t have a ROI for a while if ever. As far as losses they will most likely just write it off as a business expense and subsidies. Also selling ID.4 is a loss for them while selling a TAOS is profitable so it formulates part II: Conspiracy for EAgate? Frustrate an EV owner so much it sends them back to ICE.

 

I don’t know , you don’t spend 2 billion for that little reason?
The market was ripe to compete with Tesla because so many people refused to buy one.
I really believed that VW would bring the European experience to N.A. and I know they are involved with Ionity.
That would make do much sense to bring them here and despite all the ID 4 flaws I would be a happy customer.

 

I just got an email with a code for $5 of charging at EVgo.

Let the cut-throat electricity competition begin!

 

I got 10… see ya EA