Your 2021 ID.4 won't have these items. Anyone in VW would be foolish to promise unknown items. If these items are dealbreakers for you, then break the deal and either order a 2022, where you know these are available, or unfortunately get another vehicle.

ga2500ev

 

That is incorrect. Peruse these forums and you will see you are wrong.

 

I see. Well the way you stated it I was sure you were saying it definitely was not going to be. But I agree never buy any vehicle based on future promises. Toyota has burned millions of performance minded buyers with their "Racing Division" promises.

 

I think it will be imperative for car makers to have OTA updates as it will be a differentiator. When Tesla owners are polled OTA updates is always high on the list of features. I think it will be a hard sell in the future if you don't support OTA updates. Nobody would buy a phone that you couldn't update and it will likely be the same for most products. My modem/router, TV, phone, computer, and STB all support OTA updates. It's pretty much expected at this point.

I also think OTA updates are going to be a revenue source in the future so that's another incentive to get them working.

 

It took years for many traditional phone makers to start supporting OTA updates. I always paid a premium for phones (Apple, Essential, Google Pixel) that supported OTA updates quickly. I'm not surprised it's taking a while for a traditional car manufacturer to get OTA updates going. Hopefully, they get it worked out soon and we will start seeing regular updates.

 

I would be unhappy if my 2021 never got OTA updates. It was clearly advertised as having them, as has become the norm with techy EVs due to Tesla.

With that said, I'm not going to get rid of the ID.4 if my 2021 doesn't have them. For greater range, slightly faster charging and plug & charge, I would gladly take the car to a dealer and have it upgraded. If 2023s get more features that I can also have by taking the car to a dealer again, I probably will eventually. Don't forget that you're expected to take the car to the dealer once a year anyway for maintenance checks. It does help that my dealer is 10min away from my house.

 

Do I want to see improvements and optimizations via OTA or through updates at the dealership? Yes.

Do I think the ID4 is a substantial improvement in tech functionality as compared to the 2011 Tiguan I previously owned as of this moment? Yes.

It's all perspective.

 

Car buying has changed. In the 1950s, my grandfather used to order his cars from the Chrysler factory, take the train to Detroit, and drive them home to Colorado. My father in the 1960s-1980s went to the dealer and bought out of what they had in stock. In the 1990s, I ordered my cars from the factory and picked them up at the dealer.

Now, you put your name on a waiting list with a token, refundable deposit, and then wait a year.

Under this new purchasing model, I think maybe the strategy is to run with a constant list of deposits. As far as I can see, there is no penalty to being on wait lists for multiple cars from multiple companies. A prospective ID.4 buyer could easily put himself or herself on the lists for a couple of model years and a couple of configurations, plus a Hyundai, an F-150, a Tesla, etc. All at the same time. That's just the reality of how it is now. It's sort of like shopping at multiple local dealers before deciding what to buy.

 

Car buying has changed. In the 1950s, my grandfather used to order his cars from the Chrysler factory, take the train to Detroit, and drive them home to Colorado. My father in the 1960s-1980s went to the dealer and bought out of what they had in stock. In the 1990s, I ordered my cars from the factory and picked them up at the dealer.

Now, you put your name on a waiting list with a token, refundable deposit, and then wait a year.

Under this new purchasing model, I think maybe the strategy is to run with a constant list of deposits. As far as I can see, there is no penalty to being on wait lists for multiple cars from multiple companies. A prospective ID.4 buyer could easily put himself or herself on the lists for a couple of model years and a couple of configurations, plus a Hyundai, an F-150, a Tesla, etc. All at the same time. That's just the reality of how it is now. It's sort of like shopping at multiple local dealers before deciding what to buy.

That sounds great and all expect that the reservations aren’t a guarantee of what price you’ll pay at a lot of dealers and you won’t know that until you’ve waited a looong time.

Wake me up when I make a reservation online, do all the paperwork online when it’s ready, and it gets delivered to my door without me having to walk into a den of thieves.

 

This is just temporary. Too many buyers clamoring for limited EV production in a time when all vehicle production is hamstrung. Once the logistics train is back on track, once the market demand returns to some semblance of "normal," once battery production begins to catch up, once legacy auto pulls their head from the sand and builds EVs to meet demand... then ordering a car will be a typical 2 to 3 month wait, if it's not available on the dealer's lot.

VW hit a sweet spot at the end of summer where there turned a handful of ID.4 orders around in just a matter of a few months. Polestar has cars ready for immediate delivery, but I can't find an option combo that's more than a month out. BMW was delivering factory ordered i3s in 2 to 3 months for most of 2021, right up until the end of summer when production got squeezed hard. I'd bet money this will be the norm a year from now as more and more EVs enter the market.

 

FYI, the delivery dates posted on Polestar’s website are whacked. Place a spec order if you’re interested. I placed an order for a 2022 Polestar 2 with Pilot and Plus packages; black over black w/20” wheels on 7 Jan. Before I placed the deposit, the website indicated “Late January” - after the deposit it immediately said “November 2021” 😂 Anywho, 24 hours after the portal updated and said “Mid-May 2022”. Out of interest, I emailed Polestar customer service and requested a confirmation of ordered options and a delivery date - they confirmed Mid-May. Until the order is in for a spec built car, their portal is just nonsense.

 

My. Car is coming in two weeks. I’ve contacted everyone. Germany by phone and email. Chattanooga by phone and email. Cariad by LinkedIn and email. No one with answer if the software of my 2021 can be updated with the five new functions in 2022. Here’s my latest contact.

Order uo6cRteqpY

Hi,

I’d like to say I’m excited but I’m a little disappointed too.

If I had locked two weeks later I would be getting a 2022 in March.
It would have been a 15 month wait instead of only 13 months, but really no difference.
I would have paid the same price and received:

OTA capability
Auto-hold
135 kw charging
Extended Range
Plug and Charge

Instead I pay full MSRP and lose out on $765 worth of features, but locked at the same time as those who receive such features at no additional expense.

The money isn’t the real issue. The problem is that no one at Volkswagen can tell me if I will ever be able to have any of those features with software updates.

One customer rep did tell me that I would never have OTA updates on a 2021. He said they would never be available. I will have to go every 12 weeks to the dealer for updates and that very few would be available for 2021 models. OUCH!

Volkswagen has advertised and emphasized OTA updates, but now I’m out in the cold?

Please help me to know I’m not making a bad decision purchasing my ID.4.

I was also told it would take 6 to 8 months to get a 2022. They said that when I booked my 2021. So I’m guessing it would be more like a year. 25,000 - 40,000 people ahead of me now.

Any info would be helpful.

Thanks,
Brian Deshaies
6 Frank Goodwin Rd
Wolfeboro, NH 03894

PS
I live 40 mins from my closest VW dealer.

you don't have to worry.
like here in europe, the car has to go to the dealer for an update for the first time.

It was previously announced that it would happen, because not every ID3 or ID4 is suitable for this from the factory. Only cars built after week 8 2021 can receive these 'OTA' updates, older cars must first have visited the dealer for ID.Software 2.1, which makes it possible to automatically receive new software. Invitations were sent for this in March.

The new features of the update include new lighting functions, improvements to the multimedia system and better recognition of road users in the immediate vicinity of the car. A novelty concerns the ID-light, the light strip that runs over the dashboard and which, for example, supports the navigation system. That strip can now light up to advise you to take your foot off the pedal and thus drive more economically. In addition, there are also improvements that affect the 'stability and performance' of the system.

After many software updates at VW were aimed at eliminating errors, the update to ID.Software 3.0 should provide more loading capacity and functions. As early as week 51, all ID models (ID.3, ID4 and ID.5) will roll off the production line with the new software version 3.0. For vehicles with the large 77 kWh battery, this update increases the charging power from 125 to 135 kW. With the ID.5 GTX, even 150 kW are included for all customers. "Under ideal conditions you might even read 175 kW charging power at the column, 135 kW is often experienced by many customers!" Promises Silke Bagschik, Head of Sales and Marketing for the E-Mobility Series at VW. With a later update you could also enable more than 135 and 150 kW as standard. "There is still room for improvement!" This means that the large batteries in the ID.3 and ID.4 follow the small 45 and 58 kWh batteries. Halfway through the year, these were provided with a charging capacity update from 100 to 110 kW or 100 to 120 kW in the workshop. Further updates are planned on when they will come, but the VW folks are still leaving it open.

 

ID.Software 2.1 update at the dealer took 2 hours

 

I have a Honda Ridgeline RTL.
The RTL E has back up sensors. I wanted back up sensors. Dealership said it couldn’t be done.
Honda American said it couldn’t be done.
Then I found a video online. Bought a new uninstalled kit on eBay. It required I drill out four blank spots on my rear bumper, take out the rear seat, half the composite bed liner, all the sill trim on the drivers side, and the left side of the dash to get to the original wire harness that had a plug for “back up sensors”.
Installed the on off button on the dash , done. 10 hrs.
Then it didn’t work when I turned on the car.
Went to bed.
Next morning before I started diagnosing I tried it again and it worked. Seems the trucks computer had to recognize it was installed. Has worked ever since.

point here is the dealers and manufacturers say things can’t be upgraded because they want you to trade in and get the next model up.
The bones of vehicles today are mostly all the same.
It would cost way more to leave bits and pieces out, have multiple computer systems, multiple wire harnesses etc.

plus 10ths labor and parts would have been $1800 for backup sensors …whose paying that

 

I am no longer a fan of Volvo or Polestar.
Owned by Greeley,….China.
I was hoping for a Mach E (profits back to a US company) but too expensive, too low and sporty.
So I also have an Ioniq 5 and F150 lightning and an ID.4 reservations. ID.4 is making it to me first. Ioniq 5 is not a reservation. You are on a list. If a car makes it to your geographic area they call the next on the list. If you don’t like the color, trim, etc. it goes to the next on the list. They say they will try you again next time…..??
Ford Lightning, They have 160,000 reservations. They can’t fill all of them in 2022 so most will be filled in 2023.
I also Think Hyundai has had growing pains with EV’s. Kona battery fires, Ioniq 5 coolant leaks in South Korea, Ioniq EV power loss recall. All these in the last year.

 

In regards to China, I think it is irresponsible for consumers to not think twice about buying things Made in China when they have the choice. That government threatens the U.S., Europe, Canada, Australia, and nearly every country that borders the Pacific Ocean, plus is threatening the rights of passage in parts of the Pacific practically every time they issue a statement. It's very likely some people's loved ones are going to called to arms to fight China sooner or later. Let's not give them unlimited money for their military. But of course the Germans and Japanese are over their former imperialistic ambitions so buy away! Now back to automotive frivolity....

 

I’m sure you’re aware, but your ID.4 greatly contributes to Chinese industry as well. 46% of ID.4 part content is Chinese made. No one’s clean.

 

Yes but I also would not buy an Axis-made car in January 1939. Well maybe a BMW motorcycle that one of our G.I's shipped home (later). But I am happy to see this trend of de-coupling from Chinese manufacturing (ex. Borg-Warner turbos). Accelerating that trend would probably be enough to stop their government from acting so foolish. I hope VW is reading this.

 

Polestar Forum


My window sticker (in the US) says 95% of parts are from China, with 1% US/Canadian.

Does say the engine is Swedish - though I'm guessing they mean motor?

 

Polestar Forum


My window sticker (in the US) says 95% of parts are from China, with 1% US/Canadian.

Does say the engine is Swedish - though I'm guessing they mean motor?

Got a picture?

 

My Honda Ridgeline was made in Alabama fro 75% USA parts.
But profits back to Japan.

 

I waited I thought long enough to be one of the first Chattanooga cars.
But guessed wrong. I have one of the last 2021 from Zwickau.
At least by hook or crook it’s a zero carbon vehicle. Carbon credits ..,etc.

 

I'll offer you a counterpoint.

Traditionally a car is purchased and what it has on day one how it stays for life.

When the manufacturers build a subscription revenue stream, they can continue developing and refining features. This potentially gives the customer base an "in" to request new features; previously those requests would just go ignored.

I'm not talking Toyota charging to use the remote to remote-start the car. I'm talking system level updates that might give us split screen Android Auto, the ability to limit charging amperage via software, enabling driver memory via key fob, etc.

The argument could be "well the car should have just come with that to begin with" but features have always been artificially limited based on trim or brand (VW vs. Audi, Toyota vs. Lexus) with some features built in, just not enabled.

 

I'll offer you a counterpoint.

Traditionally a car is purchased and what it has on day one how it stays for life.

When the manufacturers build a subscription revenue stream, they can continue developing and refining features. This potentially gives the customer base an "in" to request new features; previously those requests would just go ignored.

I'm not talking Toyota charging to use the remote to remote-start the car. I'm talking system level updates that might give us split screen Android Auto, the ability to limit charging amperage via software, enabling driver memory via key fob, etc.

The argument could be "well the car should have just come with that to begin with" but features have always been artificially limited based on trim or brand (VW vs. Audi, Toyota vs. Lexus) with some features built in, just not enabled.

I'm more concerned about nickel and diming like the Toyota example (although that may not have been intentional and a mistake on their end). If they are truly adding new value, then I get that, but I still like how Apple would give you OS updates for free as long as the hardware still supports it.

 

Added range and power are not them crippling the car intentionally at start - think of it more as pushing the safety margins after seeing how the car performs in the real world. if they'd sold a car with smaller margins and there were more problems people would be screaming about it. better to underpromise and overdeliver.

anything that delivers on what the car should already have should basically be free. Bug fixes, things promised from day 1, etc. If it's something where our car never got it and '22 does, then we should get it as well without additional cost. at a certain point we would need to start paying, though, i'd imagine.

anything that adds functionality or increases what we can do (like more power) is probably something they can charge for.

 

The AWD id.4 will absolutely have to be updated. The list of bugs I have encountered so far is long and ANNOYING! MEANWHILE the promised OTA is a little overdue, and based on Car-net stability ( or lack of), I am losing hope that this car will prove to be anything but a lemon.

 

the promised OTA is a little overdue

More like a LOT overdue.

 

VW should treat the ID.4 the same way that Tesla (or Apple) treats their devices and keep improving the product for free as they learn how to do it. That leads to trust in the company, improved user satisfaction, and more sales. It can also lead to increased revenue if they are smart: I might be willing to pay for an upgraded inverter if it gives me V2G or V2H functionality, and it increases the longevity of my car. I'd rather have that particular feature be free and I think VW should do it b/c it would give them an advantage on Tesla, but I'm willing to pay.

In the software world, updates actually save money to the vendor. It is expensive to support bug fixes for old versions of a software, it is much cheaper to "encourage/force" customers to upgrade their "devices" and only support a few versions. As they say, YMMV (your mileage may vary) as the details matter.

 

I agree with the sentiment and with your points, and I believe that this is VW‘s intention. I couple of things I try to keep in mind:

• VW is new to this. A lot can go wrong with OTA updates — or any kind of updates on this scale and of this magnitude. If waiting a bit longer means getting a solid update that doesn’t brick a single car, then it’s worth it.
  
  
• If they release it before it’s truly fully tested and vetted, and it bricks even a single car, then they’ve got a much more dire situation than just owners being annoyed about delays. The former situation would be a disaster for their brand and for their EV push, while the latter is a bad situation, but not truly the disaster that some people seem to think it is. Software release delays happen all the time. A manufacturer bricking someone’s car doesn’t.

It‘s frustrating to have to wait. But let’s hope it ends up being worth the wait.

 

First phase of OTA was enabling beta-testers through the opt-in program to non-US owners. I think this proved to be a good strategy as they seem to have found enough issues to halt or slow down that phase.
For the next phase I hope they open up opt-in for US owners. I would have no problem beta-testing new releases and providing feedback, with the assumption everything might not work 100%. I have written software for decades now and am sympathetic to the testing process and how valuable the feedback is.

 

My own sense is that the 2.3 update that they pushed to some people in Europe solved a few minor problems, but the deployment turned out to be a shit show. And one limitation that they currently have is that not all modules are OTA updatable in 2.1, which very much limits what they can fix by pushing down a fix. BMS in particular, and that's one that definitely needs some updates. The second issue they had was one update required disabling some of the safety systems, and that required people to opt-in, and that itself was error-prone.

I believe US market will get the 3.0 release, but that is conditioned on a couple of things. First of all, 3.0 needs to be finished - they are releasing the ID.5 (probably in March) that will have 3.0. And MY22.5 cars will also have 3.0, and it sort of sounds like that's also starting in early March. As of yet, no cars with 3.0 have been released to the media or popular youtubers, so we can't say much other than this is what they are working on.

Indications are that at some point, VW will release a service campaign that will require that we bring our cars to the dealer. They will update some of the non OTA-updatable modules to be OTA updatable, apply the 2.3 updates, and replace the 12V battery (reasons are unclear, but VW has stated this several times). This update might or might not be called "2.4" - nobody in the world has been called in for this update as of yet. People have speculated that this will begin in March timeframe, but that's just speculation.

Getting from 2.4 to 3.0 might be something that the dealer would do at the same time, or they might let the OTA process finish the update. They have made no statements as of yet as to how the rest of this process will proceed. Even German-language ID forums really seem to be speculating.

Someone pointed out that the US market is unique in that we have lemon laws. If something gets screwed up, people will scream bloody murder and demand a buyback if it isn't fixed in 30 days. Most other markets don't have this. The result is that VW might be more cautious in the US market with OTA than in other markets (only push the OTA if it goes quite smoothly in other markets).

BTW - some have claimed that we have received no OTA at all, but we all receive map updates to the navigation system every couple of months, and this happens automatically with no user interaction required. I recently noted that I now have the 21.11 update, and it seems to include some changes that I made a few months ago using the map editor at HERE Map Creator - 2020. I mainly only make changes to correct public L2 chargers that are new/moved/etc, and I did that just to test and see if the changes properly propagate down to our cars. Were the changes I saw in the car a result of the changes I made in the map creator? No way to know for sure, but the specific things I did fix did seem to get picked up.

 

Indications are that at some point, VW will release a service campaign that will require that we bring our cars to the dealer. They will update some of the non OTA-updatable modules to be OTA updatable, apply the 2.3 updates, and replace the 12V battery (reasons are unclear, but VW has stated this several times). This update might or might not be called "2.4" - nobody in the world has been called in for this update as of yet. People have speculated that this will begin in March timeframe, but that's just speculation.

There have been issues with the 12V battery especially in cold climates. I believe that's the reason why they want to change it to better technology.

 

It is also good to keep in mind:

2.x base code is a problem. This is the same base code they cannot get scheduled charging to work with ("it'll be fixed in 3.0!"). This has been a problem since at least summer 2020 and the delayed ID.3 launch.

So VW's focus has clearly been on getting a stable 3.x compiled.

Anybody wanting "minor improvements" at this point just for the sake of receiving an OTA is just asking for trouble. Sure, 2.3 is probably better than 2.1, but as a customer do I want VW diverting effort into adding patches to 2.x base code? Hell no. Direct all resources to 3.x and make sure it's solid when it's handed out.

 

It is also good to keep in mind:

2.x base code is a problem. This is the same base code they cannot get scheduled charging to work with ("it'll be fixed in 3.0!"). This has been a problem since at least summer 2020 and the delayed ID.3 launch.

So VW's focus has clearly been on getting a stable 3.x compiled.

Anybody wanting "minor improvements" at this point just for the sake of receiving an OTA is just asking for trouble. Sure, 2.3 is probably better than 2.1, but as a customer do I want VW diverting effort into adding patches to 2.x base code? Hell no. Direct all resources to 3.x and make sure it's solid when it's handed out.

I think we're also forgetting that in this case, the USA is a niche market for MEB cars. We've got what, 16K ID4s vs. 100K+ ID3s and ID4s in the EU? Presumably the software has to be adapted (de-featured!) for our market, so it makes perfect sense that, at least for now, updates are lagging in the USA.

I'm with you- they can throw any work on 2.3 out the two-button controlled windows if it gets us 3.0 one day sooner.

Sent from my LM-G900TM using Tapatalk

 

So since the code is so bad, why are they still delivering cars!!!

 

The 2.1 code is what I would call "adequate" to launch the car. Not "barely adequate," just adequate.

I think (a) VW didn't realize it would be this difficult a task to collect all these bits of disparate code and recombine it into something homogenized, and (b) couldn't afford to wait -- and I mean that literally, that they had to launch this vehicle and the ID.3 when they did.

I think they wanted 2.0 to be better, and they wanted 3.0 to come faster, but reality is what it is.

 

The Mach-e is getting another OTA this weekend.

 

Lol, Why are you here?

 

Does anyone think the issue is not what’s going to be in 3.0 but how it is delivered along with more OTA updates.
Using a mobile network instead of a steady home Wi-Fi network could be the cause of a lot of their headaches.
Do other EV’s update software OTA via mobile?