[GenerationGav]

And I hate camping in nature. 😁

I'd love it for the camping, but everything I've read it seems to be impossible to use it for that, it's just for feeding back to your home grid.
I'd probably find it useful at home to bolster my home battery, but not enough to replace my existing EVSE.

While other EV manufacturers allow receiving AC from onboard inverters, it will be a shame for VW in case we need to buy some external expensive station or inverter to use this V2* feature

I'll be happy to be proved wrong. But appears to be the case.
I'm considering a 12v inverter for camping, but even they're not cheap.

 

[Atlant]

I'd love it for the camping, but everything I've read it seems to be impossible to use it for that, it's just for feeding back to your home grid.
I'd probably find it useful at home to bolster my home battery, but not enough to replace my existing EVSE.

Hyundai has been hyping exactly this use in their TV (streaming) ads. I wonder if any Volkswagen execs are watching TV?

 

[hackersonz]

Bidirectional charging is V2G - the output is DC so you then need an inverter of some sort to put the power back into the grid.
I believe there are a couple of home chargers either out, or coming out which can do this.
Electric vehicle charger Quasar 2 bi-directional Wallbox is one but they are very expensive.

The V2L adapters such as linked above require the vehicle to output AC 110v (US) or 230v (EU) - I have seen absolutely no evidence that this is possible at all on the ID vehicles.


What have you been able to do to test it? I believed with 3.2 it should work, but needs the equipment.

If Bidirectional charging is V2G, what is V2H called then? That's what I need. I'm aware I need that wallbox, and it's called "bi-directional Wallbox".
Whatever you call it, VW promised these features. I'm asking here if the feature will come to German-built US MY22 ID.4.

 

[Pascal]

If Bidirectional charging is V2G, what is V2H called then? That's what I need. I'm aware I need that wallbox, and it's called "bi-directional Wallbox".
Whatever you call it, VW promised these features. I'm asking here if the feature will come to German-built US MY22 ID.4.

1. Vehicle-to-grid or V2G - EV exports energy to support the electricity grid.
2. Vehicle-to-home or V2H - EV energy is used to power a home or business.
3. Vehicle-to-load or V2L * - EV can be used to power appliances or charge other EVs
   * V2L does not require a bidirectional charger to operate

 

[Atlant]

1. Vehicle-to-grid or V2G - EV exports energy to support the electricity grid.

I'll put a finer point on V2G:

Vehicle-to-Grid is you routinely loaning a portion of your battery to the utility grid so that they can avoid powering-up “Peaking” plants to handle relatively short-term heavy loads. During periods of surplus power power on the grid, power flows into your vehicle's battery and is stored there. During periods of power shortages, power flows out of your vehicle's battery and helps support the grid while they spin-up resources that can't respond instantly (or can't respond instantly in an economically-effective way).

And presumably, the power company compensates you in some way for you loaning them that portion of your battery and you suffering the concomitant wear on your battery.

 

[Huey52]

I'll put a finer point on V2G:

Vehicle-to-Grid is you routinely loaning a portion of your battery to the utility grid so that they can avoid powering-up “Peaking” plants to handle relatively short-term heavy loads. During periods of surplus power power on the grid, power flows into your vehicle's battery and is stored there. During periods of power shortages, power flows out of your vehicle's battery and helps support the grid while they spin-up resources that can't respond instantly (or can't respond instantly in an economically-effective way).

And presumably, the power company compensates you in some way for you loaning them that portion of your battery and you suffering the concomitant wear on your battery.

Yep, it's like your EV is a grid power factor augmenting capacitor.

 

[IslandLarry]

1. Vehicle-to-grid or V2G - EV exports energy to support the electricity grid.
2. Vehicle-to-home or V2H - EV energy is used to power a home or business.
3. Vehicle-to-load or V2L * - EV can be used to power appliances or charge other EVs
   * V2L does not require a bidirectional charger to operate

What I think would be most useful is V2V - Being able to pull up to a dead EV and plug in an extension cable to DCFC enough to get them to a charger.
V2L could also be useful for tailgating or charging your ebike at state parks.
All the other V2X stuff has no interest for me.

 

[Atlant]

What I think would be most useful is V2V - Being able to pull up to a dead EV and plug in an extension cable to DCFC enough to get them to a charger.

Kia/Hyundai are advertising this capability on TV now.

All the other V2X stuff has no interest for me.

That would depend on what bribe, err, payment your utility offers you for V2G, no?

 

[IslandLarry]

Kia/Hyundai are advertising this capability on TV now.


That would depend on what bribe, err, payment your utility offers you for V2G, no?

I don't EVER see my utility offering me more for the electricity than I originally paid them for it.

Question for those people with grid tied solar, does your utility pay you as much for your electricity as they charge you for theirs?

 

[SunWizard]

Question for those people with grid tied solar, does your utility pay you as much for your electricity as they charge you for theirs?

Yes. That is called net metering and is the law in many states that have citizen initiatives on their ballots.

 

[Atlant]

I don't EVER see my utility offering me more for the electricity than I originally paid them for it.

Question for those people with grid tied solar, does your utility pay you as much for your electricity as they charge you for theirs?

You're missing the point here. Electricity from “Peaker Plants” and other emergency sources can be VERY expensive for the utilities. They could afford to pay you pretty handsomely to have a “retainer” on some storage space in your EV battery and they'd probably also pay for actual use of that storage space.

You're not an electricity generator; you're replacing oil or gas turbines or imported power that wasn't really planned-for.

 

[Einar98281]

Indeed. Peaker plants = high demand and low supply of electricity. You BEV could be the <1sec latency source for a portion of the grid deficiency and utilities would pay handsomely. This 55MW plant cost $85M USD
Just like wikipedia and crowdsourcing, there is a place in the grid for your BEV to give back. (If VW will ever make good on its promises.)

 

[blackout]

Question for those people with grid tied solar, does your utility pay you as much for your electricity as they charge you for theirs?

Yes. That is called net metering and is the law in many states that have citizen initiatives on their ballots.

My utility in NY (and I understand most utilities) pay wholesale rate to homeowners who produce net excess with their solar, and charge retail to homeowners who are net consuming from the grid. So they pay you less than you pay them.

 

[LouZzz]

The VW press release in December 2023 (Cleverly manage your own electricity: First ID. models support bidirectional charging) confirming ID4 bidirectional charging with software version 3.5 convinced me to look at the ID4. I bought the 2023 ID4 ProSwith 82 kWh battery in April 2024 instead of a Hyundai / Kia EV.
My car has 3.5 software but no indication of being compliant with Bidirectional charging. What happened to that VW Promise for my ID4 in USA? Did we get a bait and switch?

 

[Moe]

The VW press release in December 2023 (Cleverly manage your own electricity: First ID. models support bidirectional charging) confirming ID4 bidirectional charging with software version 3.5 convinced me to look at the ID4. I bought the 2023 ID4 ProSwith 82 kWh battery in April 2024 instead of a Hyundai / Kia EV.
My car has 3.5 software but no indication of being compliant with Bidirectional charging. What happened to that VW Promise for my ID4 in USA? Did we get a bait and switch?

 

[NeverhadanEVbefore]

What happened to that VW Promise for my ID4 in USA?

It was never promised for the USA market. That's the Volkswagen Europe press release. There's some speculation about compliance in the US market - if any car can provide V2G or V2H in the US, please let us know (V2L does not count) - but regardless, that menu item is hidden in the US (and still is for the 4.x and 5.x software).

Don't feel too bad though. The amount of energy you can discharge during the lifetime of the car is limited. Last time I checked, the mentioned bi-directional charger was above 8K eur (including tax), so around 9,4K USD. Don't think it's sold in the US either. The mentioned "other home power stations" have been a no-show.

You would absolutely not ever get the savings to justify the price of the charger. A separate battery system would probably cost less, if you're into being self-reliant in-case of a power-outage.

-- instead of a Hyundai / Kia EV.

Kia advertises "V2G ready" and is actually providing that in Europe.. in limited numbers in Netherlands only. In addition to that, they've ran a few demos. And of course V2L works fine, so feel free to run your coffee machine from the car.

Apparently Kia could do V2G in the US with Quasar 2 wallbox. Price seems to be 6,5K USD + tax + installation. Not sure if you're left out because of that either.

 

[SunWizard]

if any car can provide V2G or V2H in the US, please let us know (V2L does not count)

Ford does V2G and V2H in the US, see:

The best example of what you need comes from Ford who has been selling Bi-di longer than others. You need:
Ford charge station pro $1310
Sunrun home integration kit $3895
which includes the 400VDC to 240VAC inverter in 4 to 10kw size, a Microgrid Integration Device (automatic transfer switch for power outages), and a Dark Start Battery.
Licensed electrician to install, and varying amount for your utility to install hardware like a special meter to handle power you feed back (if desired - similar tariff to how my home solar system can sell back to the grid when producing more than I need.)
Most people I have seen say it runs about $8-10k for all.

 

[NeverhadanEVbefore]

Ford does V2G and V2H in the US, see:

Ah, I have missed that. Last one I was that Ford was going to offer it. So they got there.

 

[Moe]

Ford Is Ready For The Distributed Power Plant Of The Future

Ford, Sunrun and the utility BGE have demonstrated that EV owners can earn incentives by hooking up to a distributed power plant.

cleantechnica.com

 

[LouZzz]

I was expecting to use the car to run my refrigerator and a few other items via extension cord and V2L adapter (about $100) like Kia/Hyundai cars.