[ga2500ev]

What are the benefits of hardwiring a Level 2 charger vs installing a 14-50 outlet?

I think the J1772 Tesla Gen 2 charger has to be hardwired.

A 48-amp unit on a 60 amp circuit must be hardwired. And I think the current NEC code specifies that plug in EVSE must be limited to 32A now. That may be the reason the J1772 Tesla Gen 2, which is a 40 amp unit, has to be hardwired.

ga2500ev

 

[2928]

Why 14-50 vs. 6-50? I recognize in warmer climes washer/dryers often reside in the garage and are you therefore sharing your 14-50 socket with an older dryer (newer dryers don't need the add'l wire for their newer electronics)?
I prefer 6-50 as no shared dryer but rather potential for welder, plus one less wire.

Run the neutral if you can afford the extra wire. 14-50 can be adapted to 6-50, but its more flexible. You won’t want to go back and upgrade the wiring of some future EVSE uses the 120v for some reason, like an electric stove uses the neutral to run its control electronics even if it uses 240v to heat.

 

[Nai3t]

The ultimate answer is install 60 or even 80 amp service and either a user selectable amperage EVSE, or user selectable amperage in the car. BMW appears to be doing this in their new iX and i4. I could easily live life at 24 amps (or even 16) most of the time, but there were those times when both cars are low and time is limited. I can imagine it won't be long before we have out of town visitors who need a quick charge while they stop off for a meal and a quick visit

 

[Mark Magiera]

I own a brand new Model Y and soon will take delivery of the AWD ID.4.
------------<snip>----------------------
What do you guys think about my idea of having one charger for both EVs?

I've an e-Golf & an ID4. We have (1) EVSE. We have a Flo (free from our power company). Realize GA is not so gifting to EV'ers, you have my condolences.

Also, at my cabin in Maine, I have (1) EVSE & that is a Clipper Creek (HCS-30). It too handles our charging needs between the 2 cars on those trips to Maine for the weekend.

My point is one EVSE is enough.

 

[sirozha]

I disagree with leaving the ID.4 plugged in during colder weather. Cold is good for an unused battery in terms of retaining SOC. There may be some benefit to keeping it plugged during warmer weather? But then possibly moot point if the EVSE plug is unlocked by the vehicle and thereby no EVSE action/reaction (waiting on further insight on this item)?

So, I don't keep mine plugged during disuse in any clime and can't imagine many doing so.

btw: What's Tesla's guidance on same?

Tesla owners recommend always plugging it in when not charging. I haven’t been doing it yet. I’m not sure what Tesla recommends.

I read manuals for work all day long, so I avoid manuals in my free time. Tesla’s screen-based operations are self explanatory and don’t require any manual reading.

Musk had tweeted that the recommendation was not to charge above 90% on a regular basis. A lot of speculation goes around that charging should be below 80% or even below 75% of battery capacity. I’ve been charging to 75% so far, but I only have 65 miles on it because I’m still contemplating selling it and getting something with a more refined ride quality. Unfortunately, nothing is forthcoming for the next 6-8 months besides the ID.4.

I have a strong feeling the Model Y will be gone from my garage before too long and replaced by a more competent EV. I am holding reservations on multiple EVs, including an AWD ID.4.

 

[Mark Magiera]

Musk had tweeted that the recommendation was not to charge above 90% on a regular basis. A lot of speculation goes around that charging should be below 80% or even below 75% of battery capacity. I’ve been charging to 75% so far, but I only have 65 miles on it because I’m still contemplating selling it and getting something with a more refined ride quality.

Yep, our strategy is the 40->80% for daily use on both. & the cars are unplugged, except the e-Golf gets some extra love to pre-heat off the house in the winter. We drive em down to around 40%, then plug em in overnight to 80%. Both cars end up getting attention about twice a week each. When I was commuting more with a 50mile round trip commute, I was charging 3X a week. Golf is Sun & Thurs. ID was Mon, Wed, Fri.

Also, as I mentioned above on my cabin Clipper Creek. We usually get in on Fri night & we plug the Golf in 1st (while the pack is still hot) & bring it to 80% overnight. After breakfast, I'll top the ID to 80%. We end up using both cars on errands or whatnot during the weekend. Then on Sunday for the ride home, we only bump the Golf back to 100% from 80 (or whatever SoC it is at Sunday AM) for the drive back to VT. Try to time it so the pack is 100% within an hour of ETD. That climb over Crawford Notch 1800'asl & then over Danville, VT (also 1800'asl), we need to usually add about 3kW back to the Golf for the downhill ride to Montpelier. Whereas the Kancamagus we can make the trip in one shot & still make it to Burlington (slower speed limit). But I digress.

 

[2928]

The ultimate answer is install 60 or even 80 amp service and either a user selectable amperage EVSE, or user selectable amperage in the car. BMW appears to be doing this in their new iX and i4. I could easily live life at 24 amps (or even 16) most of the time, but there were those times when both cars are low and time is limited. I can imagine it won't be long before we have out of town visitors who need a quick charge while they stop off for a meal and a quick visit

As long as your electrician does a load calc and says you have the capacity, absolutely - in my case, we only had capacity for a 50 amp circuit, so that's what went in. I do wish VW had more fine grain control over AC charging speed than the "reduce AC Current" checkbox that seems to set it all the way down to 8 amps...

 

[2928]

Yep, our strategy is the 40->80% for daily use on both. & the cars are unplugged, except the e-Golf gets some extra love to pre-heat off the house in the winter. We drive em down to around 40%, then plug em in overnight to 80%. Both cars end up getting attention about twice a week each. When I was commuting more with a 50mile round trip commute, I was charging 3X a week. Golf is Sun & Thurs. ID was Mon, Wed, Fri.

Also, as I mentioned above on my cabin Clipper Creek. We usually get in on Fri night & we plug the Golf in 1st (while the pack is still hot) & bring it to 80% overnight. After breakfast, I'll top the ID to 80%. We end up using both cars on errands or whatnot during the weekend. Then on Sunday for the ride home, we only bump the Golf back to 100% from 80 (or whatever SoC it is at Sunday AM) for the drive back to VT. Try to time it so the pack is 100% within an hour of ETD. That climb over Crawford Notch 1800'asl & then over Danville, VT (also 1800'asl), we need to usually add about 3kW back to the Golf for the downhill ride to Montpelier. Whereas the Kancamagus we can make the trip in one shot & still make it to Burlington (slower speed limit). But I digress.

Your post makes me long to be back in Vermont! We haven't been up there since COVID but hope to be planning some ski trips soon...

 

[TriangleID4]

Part of the problem with 2 EVs and one charger is the convenience of moving the cable between them. The following pics show how I attacked the problem by centrally mounting the EV charger to a cross beam in the ceiling and then using this retractor device for the cable. Wife loves the simplicity of moving between cars and especially not tripping over the cable.
It helps that the Clarity's port is on the driver's side and the ID.4's is on the passenger side.

Amazon.com

 

[hilld]

I realize people keep saying to use a 14-50 vs 6-50 plug, but I don't think a single EV charger uses the neutral (the 3 that I looked inside the neutral was not even hooked up) as there is no need for 120V power by the EV charger.

If you want to future proof, pull the 4 wires required for a 14-50 receptacle, but install the one that meets your need. That way you can swap out in the future, no need to replace the breaker or wiring, just the receptacle or plug (if you want to make the change on the EV charger).

 

[2928]

Part of the problem with 2 EVs and one charger is the convenience of moving the cable between them. The following pics show how I attacked the problem by centrally mounting the EV charger to a cross beam in the ceiling and then using this retractor device for the cable. Wife loves the simplicity of moving between cars and especially not tripping over the cable.
It helps that the Clarity's port is on the driver's side and the ID.4's is on the passenger side.

Amazon.com

View attachment 7480
View attachment 7476

View attachment 7479

View attachment 7477 View attachment 7478

Looks good! Too bad the manufacturers all put the ports in different places

 

[Huey52]

I keep saying 6-50, but then you may have noticed.
I can't foresee ever needing 14-50 in my garage uses but as you, do for a 6-50 welder. However yes, each EV'r should consider their own needs and install accordingly.

I realize people keep saying to use a 14-50 vs 6-50 plug, but I don't think a single EV charger uses the neutral (the 3 that I looked inside the neutral was not even hooked up) as there is no need for 120V power by the EV charger.

If you want to future proof, pull the 4 wires required for a 14-50 receptacle, but install the one that meets your need. That way you can swap out in the future, no need to replace the breaker or wiring, just the receptacle or plug (if you want to make the change on the EV charger).

 

[Gyanibob]

Run the neutral if you can afford the extra wire. 14-50 can be adapted to 6-50, but its more flexible. You won’t want to go back and upgrade the wiring of some future EVSE uses the 120v for some reason, like to remove electric stove uses the neutral to run its control electronics even if it uses 240v to heat.

right.

 

[TriangleID4]

I realize people keep saying to use a 14-50 vs 6-50 plug, but I don't think a single EV charger uses the neutral (the 3 that I looked inside the neutral was not even hooked up) as there is no need for 120V power by the EV charger.

If you want to future proof, pull the 4 wires required for a 14-50 receptacle, but install the one that meets your need. That way you can swap out in the future, no need to replace the breaker or wiring, just the receptacle or plug (if you want to make the change on the EV charger).

This is precisely what I had to do. My old 30 amp L2 charger is 3-wire and accepts max 8AWG cable. So, I future-proofed by running 6AWG 4-wire to a junction box, terminated the neutral, and then spliced the 3 remaining 6AWG to 8AWG using these Polaris style connectors instead of wire nuts.

Amazon.com

 

[Nai3t]

Those Polaris connectors are slick and certainly time savers if there are a bunch of splices to connect, but a split nut is a pretty dang inexpensive alternative and readily available, and I believe more compact if stuffing a small box.

 

[TriangleID4]

Those Polaris connectors are slick and certainly time savers if there are a bunch of splices to connect, but a split nut is a pretty dang inexpensive alternative and readily available, and I believe more compact if stuffing a small box.

No kidding regarding the expense. After the fortune spent on cable (if you can find it), it's hard to justify. Regarding cramming into the junction box, I found them comparable. My preference was for longevity and modularity b/c I knew I would be swapping things out. Having to do and re-do the insulation on a split nut was not something I wanted to fight.

 

[ga2500ev]

Those Polaris connectors are slick and certainly time savers if there are a bunch of splices to connect, but a split nut is a pretty dang inexpensive alternative and readily available, and I believe more compact if stuffing a small box.

But how do you electrically isolate that split nut? I would not trust wrapping the connection in electrical tape.

ga2500ev

 

[Nai3t]

But how do you electrically isolate that split nut? I would not trust wrapping the connection in electrical tape.

I installed three pairs on my EVSE installation (link in my sig, picture about halfway down).

After torquing the nut to spec, I used the Dremel to get rid of the pointy bits. Then I applied a heavy duty insulating heat shrink. I followed that with multiple wraps of 3M mastic which is sort of a thin, ultra stretchy, self-sticking electrical tape that bonds to itself. After building the mastic up to about 1.5x the thickness of the wire's insulation, I finished it with a wrap of conventional electrical tape.

The whole process probably takes close to 30 minutes per splice, definitely not as fast as Polaris, but every but as secure and reliable.