[Nai3t]

That could be solved by somebody with the knowledge and inclination to build a Arduino adapter that takes US-spec inputs and produces Euro-spec outputs.

Possible? No idea. Maybe? Probably? At least then there would be no locked adaptations to be overwritten.

When I installed the ROW taillights on my allroad, besides the programming, there was a small aftermarket module I installed that output sequenced flashing.

 

[JohnnyForElectric]

Keep in mind that I know nothing about all this but... IMHO, this might be perpetually in the realm of DIY. The euro tails are not DOT approved and I'm pretty sure nobody in the USA wants that liability. That said, I can't wait... I'm heading to Europe early next year and one stop will be by a VW parts department to survey the landscape, I might pick up a set and start a journey hoping it's just a wiring change and some coding (assuming we can eventually sort out the adaptations). The big risk is if OTA updates overwrites the config/adaptation files and make changes that takes us back to square one (think about the Jailbreak scene at war with Apple).

100% agreed on liability. IMHO: (1) amber turn lights are much clearer indication of the intention (and thus safer), (2) I trust that DOT will catch-up at some point, (3) Elon thank you for leading the way with Model Y and amber turn lights....and yes, I recognize DOT regulation is not just about the color, it's about light surface (ideally light output) and side markers that are built into the tails too...that the rest of the world does not need.

The liability rules out option1. After reading the saga that Andy is going through now with his ID.4, option 3 is out of the table too.

@Wilsonium - the proposed option 2 is immune to any OTA updates as there are no changes to the vehicle CEM, it still thinks it has the original tails... The "added module" is using the analog/power signals from the CEM and translates them into the right signals for Euro 3D tails. That is the plan and IMHO should not be that hard Thoughts?

 

[VW TECHNICIAN]

US has a lot of crippling regarding advance in technology....
Matrix lights or Laser lights that are legal up to 800 meters high beams but US is crippling it to 400 meters.....with all nannies that are last line of defense to apply automatically brakes......lights in the night should be biggest priority over any other options. If you can see more ahead you will have more time to make right corrections.

 

[JohnnyForElectric]

US has a lot of crippling regarding advance in technology....
Matrix lights or Laser lights that are legal up to 800 meters high beams but US is crippling it to 400 meters.....with all nannies that are last line of defense to apply automatically brakes......lights in the night should be biggest priority over any other options. If you can see more ahead you will have more time to make right corrections.

@VW TECHNICIAN - agreed on the headlights priority over tails. IMHO the Matrix headlights retrofit is completely out of question as that requires adaptation/configuration of the CEM and possibly other units. From my initial research it seems like the headlight housing is the same on Pro S, the difference is the the LED module, but I could be wrong. There are other German automakers offering an equivalent of matrix headlights in the US, so it's doable afterall...

 

[Buran]

Now that OBDEleven can write to modules, I'm hopeful I can do an amber signal setup with my car once I've got it. (And maybe Ross-Tech will get that capability soon, too. I can hope).

 

[dg4prez]

@VW TECHNICIAN - agreed on the headlights priority over tails. IMHO the Matrix headlights retrofit is completely out of question as that requires adaptation/configuration of the CEM and possibly other units. From my initial research it seems like the headlight housing is the same on Pro S, the difference is the the LED module, but I could be wrong. There are other German automakers offering an equivalent of matrix headlights in the US, so it's doable afterall...

The led module is the same. We’re pretty close to getting it working.

 

[JohnnyForElectric]

Now that OBDEleven can write to modules, I'm hopeful I can do an amber signal setup with my car once I've got it. (And maybe Ross-Tech will get that capability soon, too. I can hope).

Just FYI - Enabling rear amber signal on US models requires tail light replacement and wire harness adjustments, it's not just a coding change. ...and the coding change requires unlocking the CEM...

 

[Buran]

Just like on the 2007 GTI. Most likely it’s possible to build an adapter from wires and connectors to make the change, just like it was then. I’m not 100% clear on which modules can be accessed once developers get API tokens from VW; @VW TECHNICIAN can probably answer that.

I think the EU base tail lights are basically the same as the US versions save the amber signals, so hopefully the central portion doesn’t also need replacement. If so, the hassle is probably mostly trim and screw removal.

 

[JohnnyForElectric]

Just like on the 2007 GTI. Most likely it’s possible to build an adapter from wires and connectors to make the change, just like it was then. I’m not 100% clear on which modules can be accessed once developers get API tokens from VW; @VW TECHNICIAN can probably answer that.

I think the EU base tail lights are basically the same as the US versions save the amber signals, so hopefully the central portion doesn’t also need replacement. If so, the hassle is probably mostly trim and screw removal.

As you say, with base Euro tails, the feasibility can be high, the center (11A 945 093) looks as the same part. I did the same conversion as you on my MK5 Jetta - it required 3 steps: 1- Euro tail parts, 2 - connector adjustment (either move pins around or install adapter), 3 - adjust the long coding in the CEM (module on address 09) so the car sends the right signals.

For the ID.4 it seems like a very similar process for the base taillights (8VG). The CEM (J519) can be coded using the OBD Eleven w/ SFD unlocking. While looking at the wiring diagram the only question is the connection between pins 71 and 60 on the T73a CEM connector for the driver side and pins 8 and 27 on the T73b CEM connector for the passenger side. Those are the turn lights and brake lights. Those pins are not inter-connected in the Euro version. This almost makes it look like there is one less wire routed to the back for each side. This would confirm the hypothesis that side brake lights are linked with turn lights (if you hit brake both segments come on, same for turns). I'll post more once I (finally) get my car after more than 14+ months of waiting. Now if anyone wants to continue in the research - you are very welcome. Fundamental question - how many wires do you see going into the left and right tail light in your US version? 3 or 4? If 4 - are the red/black (left) or (purple/black on the right) wires connected to the same pin? ...so @Buran what it may imply is that additional wires might need to be routed...

The situation is more fun for the "3D Euro tail light" (8VP), there are more wires, different pins (same connector) and a LIN bus signal from J533 for the configuration of the light. Also the central part needs to be replaced. Let's keep this open for other time But I essentially don't see the 3D Euro tail retro fit that harder than the base Euro... My 2 cents...

 

[Buran]

This would confirm the hypothesis that side brake lights are linked with turn lights (if you hit brake both segments come on, same for turns).

They are. The turn signals flash when the hatch is opened (my CR-V does this, too, so maybe it's a regulation). See also hazard lights. Compare to one of the optional matrix light startup animations (animation 2) and remote unlocking or signalling which shows an amber signal without the tail lamp portion lighting up. (Some of these have the wrong white balance so the indicator looks red, but at least the last one shows the base tails instead of the fancy matrix ones that nearly all the videos have).

Where do you find the wiring diagrams? I don't remember a lot about what pins I had to move where on the Mk5, alas, but I imagine the scenario is somewhat similar here.

 

[Buran]

Just FYI - Enabling rear amber signal on US models requires tail light replacement and wire harness adjustments, it's not just a coding change. ...and the coding change requires unlocking the CEM...

Just noticed in this discussion of activating matrix lights that you can, at least on the Arteon, access the CECM via OBDEleven.

 

[Buran]

Still slowly working on this one in the background while waiting to be scheduled for production. A mod-friendly dealer is trying to help sort out the parts themselves. They need the VIN of a European-model ID4 (I guess the database works on showing parts that will fit a given VIN).

I've tried looking at dealer websites in the UK and France, since I can read French well enough. They don't seem to list VINs on cars in their inventories. Anyone know where I could find an example VIN to use?

(And adding: thanks to @Andy at Ross-Tech.com I found what I was looking for! Thanks so much!)

 

[Andy at Ross-Tech.com]

@Buran We have had some RoW ID.4 scans (including VINs) posted in the RT forum. I don't want to divert traffic or anything but do a web search for:

J623-EBJA

If you see ZZZ in the VIN, it's Rest-of-World.

 

[JohnnyForElectric]

Thanks @Buran for more research/information, thank you @Andy at Ross-Tech.com for all pointers, and for the VCDS, I totally love it OBD11 is ok for backup and SFD unlock, I'm then using VCDS to code/change adaptation once unlocked. I like my big screen and to log all changes I'm doing...

The Ada(ptation) maps from 2021 VW ID 4 77kWh RWD Pro performance Max | Ross-Tech Forums helped a ton. Playing with all those light adaptations is really amazing and shows what those computers are capable of - e.g. you can change the rear lightbar into a turn light or brake/turn light (not that it is useful), but it's soo cool .

The not so amazing news is that the rear tail has only 3 wires (Ground, Position+Parking light, Brake+Turn light) routed to it - so any Euro tail needs additional wire(s).

• The "yellow" turn light (8VG) mod looks simpler. Needs new taillights and one additional wire for each light. The middle bar IMHO could stay. This mod needs coding (I should say Adaptations) - this is not the "long coding" we know from MKV GTIs/GLIs, this is way more flexible (and complex at the same time). A diff between the Ada map from Euro ID.4 on Ross Tech and your Ada map can give good clues. HL is 'Hinten Links' (Rear Left), the RFL is 'Rückfahrlicht' (backup light) etc...
  • IMHO the "correct way" to do this mod is to route the wires from CEM (J519) from the same pins as on the European version and change the coding/adaptation accordingly.

• The 3D Euro Tails (8VP) are little more complex, they need additional wires for power and a LIN3 signal from J533 plus the missing wire mentioned above plus more coding/adaptations.
  • The good news is that LIN3 seems to be the same bus that is connected to the rear tailgate sensor (the kick/open sensor), so may not need a long route...

Here are some photos of the US left tail lamp connector. I'll post more details as I'll discover more over coming months...

 

[JohnnyForElectric]

A small update. Was able to make the Euro 3D tails work as a proof of concept to see feasibility. Next step is to have the harness made, install and perfect adaptation

Observations? the "parking/position" segments of the 3D Euro tails are quite red even when not turned on (see the left photo). I remember this surprised me when I saw those for the first time. When turned on the difference is huge. See below - off and on state; same ambient light.

The challenge - since the tails are controlled by a LIN signal from Module 19, I had to find the right signal and magically, it's the same LIN bus that connects to the rear lid sensor (the kick sensor in the bumper that opens the trunk). I used oscilloscope to make sure it's the LIN so I do not fry the lights. It's really crazy that one wire (the LIN) can control all the lights in the lamps, run animations and allow configuration...

The brake signal is a cute "X" that stretches across the side and middle lamps. Turn lights of course yellow.

The next step is as mentioned to have the harness made and do the install. Needs some more adaptation, did not make the animations work yet, nor the menu items to show in the car settings.

 

[Buran]

Huh! That's neat. I really like that.

Since I have no idea when I'll get my car (thanks to the production shutdowns, I'm now figuring I'll get a US-made 2023), I'm in no hurry. Order is still in status 3.

I know that these lights have a few different animations selectable at start, but that's not something I'm worried about. So if there's no way to make the menu work (which would surprise me, mind), it's not the end of the world for me.

Another thing to keep in mind is the rear fog lamp. I don't know whether the coding for it is separate or not. I'm guessing that it's the large clear lamp inboard of the X.

Thanks for this update! Looks great. Hopefully the white VW logo standard in the US market will fit these, since that's trivial to get (the parts section of vw.com sells it).

 

[JohnnyForElectric]

Huh! That's neat. I really like that.

Since I have no idea when I'll get my car (thanks to the production shutdowns, I'm now figuring I'll get a US-made 2023), I'm in no hurry. Order is still in status 3.

I know that these lights have a few different animations selectable at start, but that's not something I'm worried about. So if there's no way to make the menu work (which would surprise me, mind), it's not the end of the world for me.

Another thing to keep in mind is the rear fog lamp. I don't know whether the coding for it is separate or not. I'm guessing that it's the large clear lamp inboard of the X.

Thanks for this update! Looks great. Hopefully the white VW logo standard in the US market will fit these, since that's trivial to get (the parts section of vw.com sells it).

Good luck with your car - hope you will be able to get it soon!

To your points:
Fog light - in the ID.4 it's a completely separate lamp in the bumper, separate wire and separate coding. Retrofitting would require changing the "touch" light switch that in the US version does not have Fog Light option.

Coding/adaptation - agreed the animations not working is ok, I'm sure there is a way to figure it out. Just to put this in perspective - the module 9 has around 1600 adaptations, module 19 around 1000 and module 8125 around 1200. So a right combination of these 3800 adaptations makes it happen It only takes time to find out

 

[Buran]

Good grief! That's a lot of options.

Is the inboard light then a reverse light, instead? I don't mind not having a fog light. I had it working in my Mk. 5 but I only needed it two or three times over the eight years I owned the car, and using the hazard lights would probably be sufficient in foggy conditions on highways, especially with bright amber LED signals to draw attention.

Did you get those lamps from Kufatec or have you got another source? It's oddly difficult to find sources for EU parts these days.

 

[voveris]

Hi, Is there some updates?

 

[JohnnyForElectric]

Small update, asked DAP/Paul and Kufatec to help with the harness, but neither of them could do it. So I ordered all pins and connectors and will proceed after v3 upgrade + want to do more retrofits at the same time so I don't need to pop out the trim again... I will document and post the details once I'm on it (probably couple months from now). Below is a summary write-up of the harness if anyone is interested...

"
The tail harness needs two power wires from fuse SC24 for the left and fuse SC10 for the right. The fuse slots for SC24 and SC10 are empty and the slot has only the left pin (it looks like it’s just a “pin” that gets pushed inside just like into a connector). So each power wire (0.5 rt/ge) would need to start with that pin, then each wire needs to split at the back of the car to the tail connector T8w and T8aa (includes water insulation ring) and the lid interconnect T10e and T10f. Then continue from the lid interconnect T10h and T10i to the MX13 tail light – connectors T8s and T8aj. The LIN is relatively simple, found the wire at the back near park assist module (where the DCC module is on Euro cars). So the LIN (0.35 vi/sw) needs to go to each taillight connector T8w and T8aa (w/ water insulation ring) and via the lid interconnect T10f to the T8s and T8aj… An additional wire might be needed on the US spec cars from j519/CECM connections - the easiest is to find the splice in the wiring harness between pins 71 & 60 for T73a connector and 8 & 27 for connector T73b.
Another challenge is that the MX3, MX4 and MX13 connectors in the US version (and I suspect in the low Euro trim without 3D tails) have same shape, but different notches, so they don't fit… So in other words VW has the connectors "coded", I'm guessing this is to prevent plugging an incorrect component on the assembly line. Solution is to replace them with the proper coding or shave off the notches
"