90 minutes at 65 KW will charge your 77KWh battery from 0% to 126% in 90 minutes.
Maybe a little hyperbole here?

 

It charges more slowly after 80%

 

What was your soc when you started charging and what always the temp ?

 

I started at 48% capacity and the temp was 60 degrees. Of the 8 Electrify America chargers, there were 4 ID4s all charging at 65-70 kW and four other brands (Hyundai, Lucid, Polestar and Rivian) which were all charging at 132 kW+. Why the difference?

 

82kw but you only get 77kw "usable" charge. My anecdotal experience is that the # of vehicles charging at a given station has a lot of impact on total charge delivered. Same exact station & charger two weeks ago I saw 88kw starting at 25% SoC, temp around 40 deg F, empty station. Yesterday saw 78kw starting from 8% SoC (and a longer drive to heat the battery up to compensate for 30 deg F temp). It could be temp having an impact too but the station was completely full (all 4 chargers charging).

 

Hmmm. When I charge I am getting 164-180 kw during a charge. I have a 2023 AWD ID 4.
Good luck.

 

I agree all other chargers besides EA will give max rate charging consistently!

 

Hmmm. When I charge I am getting 164-180 kw during a charge. I have a 2023 AWD ID 4. Good luck.

We just purchased our 2023 ID4 and I’m shocked at how slow it charges at Electrify America. The charging rates I’m getting are 65-70 kW at normal temps. Every ID4 at these chargers seem about the same. Every other brand of EV charges at double this speed. I called Electrify America and learned the charger had 204kW available but the ID4 would only accept 65-70 kW. What’s the deal? It takes 90 minutes to fully charge!

I have a late 2022 with the "updated" software. It's been very slow, I took it to the dealer today. It took the dealer 90 min to charge it from SOC 36% to 80%. They said it was "in range" and also said I should write VW iD4 customer service (really - was the car not at a VW Dealer Service center?).

 

My 2022 ID4 is usually between 24-45 kW, and the temperature doesn't matter. I had the dealer check the car. They charged it from SOC 36% to 80%, it took 90 minutes and they said it was "within range." They also suggested that I notify VW ID4 customer line (really, it's a VW dealer?). When I pick up the car tomorrow morning, I'll be contact VW America and giving them two complaints, 1) about the charging time, and 2) that a dealer should be able to bring an EV up to spec.

 

That’s unacceptable. It’s advertise to charge from 20% to 80% in 30 minutes. You should take photos and videos in case the 3 letter word with the 2 to 3 partner last names and associates are required.

 

Typically you need to be under 20% state of charge in order to hit the rated charging speeds. During the winter you are looking to charge 55kW city and 75-80kW when commuting and the pack is warm from about 30 minutes to an hour of driving.

 

I am absolutely not seeing this with our 2023 ID.4.

My four DCFC sessions have all been in the 30 to 40 minute range. I charged today at EA and had a peak speed of 145kw and an average for the session of 100kw. The car charged from 19% to 80% in exactly 30 minutes at about 50 degree temperature.

Dave

 

2022 Pro, build date August 2022, started at 19% after 56 mile drive. There were two other cars charging.

 

In real world conditions, most users will find that the ID.4 charges at about 60 kW. This occurs because either: 1) the battery State-of-Charge when you arrive at the charger is 20% or more, or 2) the battery is cool when you arrive at the charger.

Some folks here will report much higher charge rates but that only occurs when the battery SoC is less than 20% and the battery is already quite warm. Most real-world ID.4 DCFC (Direct Current Fast-Charging) won't reach these rates.

 

Warm is a relative concept. I believe that about 70F is all the warmer it needs to be to get the higher charge rates. The real problem is that VW only partially preconditions the battery - bringing the temperature up to about 50F or so, but not all the way to 70F. The reports I have seen are that VW intends to finish this by tying it to the navigation, so if you are navigating to a DCFC that it will fully precondition the battery to accept the higher charge rates.

As for SOC, even 30 or 40% is still low enough to still get ~100kW or so - the curves I have seen posted show only a gradual rampdown of charge speed.

 

I contacted Electrify America when my last charging session ended and they confirmed that the charger had 204 kW available, but the ID4 was limiting the charge.

 

I don't have that much charging experience but below are my ID4 charging history. I always charge 30 min except the first time (first row for 35 min). The Jan-28 SoC 35% is the one that puzzled me. I suspect EA charger issues. Although the receipt says peak 112 kWh, the charger drop very soon and remained constant ~32 kWh (can't remember exactly; but it was weird) with only 20 kWh charged after 30 min. In 2 weeks I'll repeat this SoC >30% charge but on a different charger during a trip.

date	SoC start	SoC end	SoC gain	Peak kWh	total kWh
1/6/2023	7	80	73	140	60
1/22/2023	27	77	50	101	42
1/28/2023	22	77	55	129	48
1/28/2023	35	60	25	112	20
2/4/2023	29	79	50	111	44

Anyway, here is a Charge Curve (done on EA Hyperfast 350 kW charger) from someone and it is a good reference as what kW to expect at different SoC. Hope this helps.

This is for FE on 150 kW charger. Similar curve just different kW on y axis

How Long Does The Volkswagen ID.4 Take To Charge From 0% To 100%?

We fully deplete a Volkswagen ID.4's battery and then charge it from zero to 100% to see how long it takes to charge an ID.4

insideevs.com

 

I've got a small, sample size of three - and I've seen triple digits charging speed each time. Once in October in upstate New York, and twice in summer in NJ and Maryland. I've also never plugged in below 20% - always in the 30% range. I know it's faster down low, but spousal harmony is more important than charge speed, so I always plug in before the orange light comes on! It doesn't drop below 100kW until it's over 45%. And the newer 2023 cars are supposed to be even faster.

The primary determining factor I suspect is battery temp - if it's cold out, and you haven't driven far to the charger (like you're using one near home as if it were a gas station) it is slow because the battery is cold. Hopefully they'll give us preconditioning soon (it has been promised) to avoid this issue. But even with preconditioning, you'll still need a significant chunk of time to accomplish this - after all, it can't heat a 1,000 lb battery up immediately.

I've only ever charged on highway road trips after a few hours of driving at highway speeds, so presumably the battery has been nice and warm and happy to charge.

These complaints will go away in a few months, and come back again next November ... unless they push preconditioning before then!

 

Cannot be explained without context. And unfortunately the ID4 simply doesn't give enough context to answer your questions. If you really want to know what's going on, you are going to have to get a OBDII dongle and a app like CarScanner to get the information you need to understand why the charging speed is what it is.

But understand two things. First is that the listed charging speed is the maximal speed under optimal conditions. In general optimal conditions are a warm battery, meaning about 80F or so, and a low starting state of charge SOC, which is generally 20% or less. So, "normal" temperatures in the winter are not optimal.

The second is that the charging speed simply isn't fixed. And I know that drives new EV people coming from ICE absolutely nuts. I see in the post below you understand that the charging speed slows under 80%. But the battery temperature, and the state of charge, and the power of dispenser, and if the dispenser has temperature sensor problems, or if the station is power limited, all can affect the charging power from session to session. And most of the time, because of these factors, one will not get those 100,125, or 150kW charging speeds that are promised under optimal conditions.

VW has frankly done a bad job. They promote the optimal conditions charging numbers, but they did not install either a mechanism to help create those conditions, in the form of battery heating to optimal temps, nor the information technology to explain to the driver why the charging speed is what it is. It's a toxic brew unfortunately.

Bottom line, put the battery temp at the overnight low temperature (cold soaked) unless the ID4 has been charged for the day, then understand that a battery with a 40 or 50 degree temperature is going charge in the 60-70 kW range. It's designed to protect the battery. So, just plan for it when charging.

ga2500ev

 

Appropos for this thread:

 

Last week during the cold snap, I pulled 160kW with 3 other cars charging at an EA with the newer hardware. It was 20F with a single digit wind chill. 🤷‍♂️

 

Ambient temperature isn't relevant however. Pack temperature is the key.

 

What we have now in the industry is, "Look Ma! I've got 92% in Math!" Without telling her that there were 10 more tests and your "average" was 66%.

As more and more people join EV ownership, this, "Trust me. Ours charge faster." claim will be more problematic.
Therefore, I think the federal regulation is coming soon.
I am not usually for regulation but what we have now is total BS.

 

They must assess the legal fees vs actually providing the product. Since it’s probably cheaper to pay for damages and legal fees this is what we will continue to get.

 

Low this morning was 61 degrees. Was 68 degrees when I went to charge after driving 32 miles. I was at 43% and only got 63kw. Did get to 80% after 30 mins. A 2021 ID4 pulled up and was using the 350kw charger. I talked to him a few minutes. He said he always got faster charging at the 350's. I looked at the screen on the charger and he was at 34% and only getting 43kw.

 

With an older software version on the EA charger the charger displayed the requested power from the car. That was great and helped a lot sadly.i never saw that displayed again.
The rivian gives a message like " charging is slow because of cold battery"

Does it need a rocket scientist to come up with the information?
I claim a lot of our unhappiness comes from.really bad and thoughtless software implementations, no excuse.

I

 

I have a 2022 ID4 AWD Pro S and we have been getting very slow charging from most of the EA chargers when on a recent road trip, usually around 35-50kw- once in a while, I might get over 100 kW under 50% state of charge. I also on a 2022 Chevrolet bolt and it consistently charges at the maximum 55 kW almost any sales charge. It also has a smaller overall usable battery so usually I can charge faster than the Volkswagen, which is kind of sad if Volkswagen would enable battery preheating from the menu I believe we should be able to get better charging rates, I don’t know if this is ever even going to be planned for this vehicle by Volkswagen every other manufacture tends to try to enable better use ability if their vehicles other than Volkswagen. Kind of wish I had not purchased this vehicle but a Kia, EV 6 or Hyundai ionic five instead .

 

you should let you battery get below 12% state of charge and then charge. I have a 23 AWD ID4 and been getting 164 or 180 kw at electrify America. I leave my house drive 10-15 mins to the nearest EA and charge. I live in the Rocky Mountains at 9200 above sea level and have no issues. Good luck.

 

I think the advertised numbers for both range and charging speed are very misleading. Not sure how to fix it given the many variables, but a start would be to increase the speed of the EPA's "highway" test from 50 MPH to 80 MPH. And then to quote the range based on something sensible like 20-80% charge. And then to quote the charging speed using a battery that is at a realistic 50 degrees F.

None of this is going to happen. Another EV learning experience. But as the customer profile changes from early adopter to regular person just wanting to get to work, it is going to be a serious pain point.

 

I think the advertised numbers for both range and charging speed are very misleading. Not sure how to fix it given the many variables, but a start would be to increase the speed of the EPA's "highway" test from 50 MPH to 80 MPH. And then to quote the range based on something sensible like 20-80% charge. And then to quote the charging speed using a battery that is at a realistic 50 degrees F.

None of this is going to happen. Another EV learning experience. But as the customer profile changes from early adopter to regular person just wanting to get to work, it is going to be a serious pain point.

I don't have complaints about the advertised range. My 22 Pro RWD's range is advertised as 275 miles and I got close to 310 miles in actual driving in the summer. My 23 Pro S AWD is advertised as 255 miles and I am getting +/- 10% of that now.

However, if you are talking about the predictive range shown next to the %SoC, it can't be trusted. There is no way for the car to know if your next 50 miles is up the mountain or downhill. All of us are more concerned with the 'predictive range' as a part of range anxiety but that information simply can't be calculated accurately.

The charging speed is different. VW can share the conditions at which 10~80% changing takes place in 36 mins. If they want to be really helpful, they can let us know how long it takes from 10~80% @ 40 F, @ 50 F and @ 60 F. (BTW, the Charging calculator does this to a degree.)

In the long run, I am asking for "This car can charge at XX kW right now" on the charging screen. That way, at least I will be able to tell if I am sitting at a bad charger or not.

 

When we plan a trip using our favorite nav app, it tells us how long the drive will take down to the minute. But can it really be that accurate? And how does it know that route B will take 2 mins longer? Did the nav app send a driver that way a few minutes ago to check?

Everyday, we are deluged with uncertain data sold to us as certainty. A 10-day forecast?! LOL.

 

I might try the car's navigation system again one of these days, but to do so I would have to use the touch screen which I'm trying to never use.

 

If VW or whoever their software arm is could implement arrival SOC and charging stops I would cancel my ABRP Premium subscription in a heartbeat. The native nav works quite well and almost gives too much information, for example when your next turn is the next stoplight with 2 driveways prior (business or otherwise) it will say 'make 3rd right turn' I guess so you don't accidentally turn into the driveways before the turn. The ID light is pretty on point on where to turn as well. Honestly except for the initial slowness of pulling up your destination it works very very well.

 

The EA chargers here were recently upgraded to the new model, except for the chademo one which is still the old model All 4 chargers were ostensibly working, which for here is an EA miracle.

I connect to #1. It won't read the EA card in Apple Wallet or start from the app. I move to #4 and it works on the first try.

Also charging were a Mach E, a Bolt, and a Rivian. I checked the charging rates on all four. The max I observed:

• Mach E: 54
• Bolt: 24
• My ID.4: 86
• Rivian: 162

Only the Rivian was using a charger rated at 150. The rest were rated 350.

I was happy with 86 since that's the highest I've ever gotten. But the Rivian was crazy fast in comparison. The owner asked us if we preconditioned. Huh? What's that? lol.

 

Quick post. Presently sitting at EA at my local Walmart. Drove from work to get here. 10 minute drive. Plugged in at 9% SOC., temp 19 degrees and plugged in at 150kw charger as both 350 chargers are down. I’m in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado at 9,200 ft above sea level. (I live here ) Yes I reported both issues to EA). No yo-yo or any other silliness. Getting 108kw. Pics below for evidence. And once again just shredded Kyle and Alyssa recommendation to yo yo-yo your ID4. Everyone has different needs/wants for their car. I enjoy my ID4. YMMV.

 

All these good brain powers wasted because we don't have a data point.... "At this moment, this wonderful car you are driving can receive OO kW max from a DC fast charger" on the infotainment screen.

If you are told X and get something different, it too is human nature to wonder why?
When you slow charge, do you think, "Well, that must be the charger!" and walk away?
Or, do you think, "$hit! What's wrong with my car!"

As an EV maker, should you care what your customers think?

 

The problem still is even if you have that information, it's not going to change the end result. People don't want to know why their ID4 is charging at 60kW. They want it to charge at 125 or 175 kW because that's the number they were promised.

Let's address the real question: How can the ID4 be programmed to charge at its promised maximum speed under all conditions? That literally is the only solution to this problem.

ga2500ev