VS
Comparison Test: Toyota BZ4X vs VW ID4.
-
Expert Guests, EV Insights, and Hot Topics: Tune in to VWIDTalk Podcast Today
3032
VS
21 - 40 of 56 Posts
Joined
·
278 Posts
I agree. The wheel well accents are atrocious. What were they thinking? I've seen a lot of ugly designs out of Toyota and Lexus lately.
Joined
·
91 Posts
Lexus has a distinctive design. Ugly but distinctive.
There’s a lot of ugly cars going around … in my opinion! BMW has their horrid giant grilles and faux crystal interior controls. Mercedes Benz has the jellybean thing going on (although if it gives them 395 miles of real world highway range I guess it’s working). Toyota/Lexus just do angles everywhere for no reason. The new Jeep Grand Cherokee looks like it got punched in the teeth. 🤷♂️
Beaver teeth! 🤣
Joined
·
22 Posts
I haven't really been feeling Toyota's design philosophy for the past 20 years. They have been openly adverse to the production of full BEV's and only started thinking about creating the Bz4X after they've milked all they can with the Prius drivetrain. They put a minimum effort into the design. The car is definitely built to a price point and car enthusiasts are not fooled. Mid-sized battery, with a slow max charge rate means you are not going to take this car on a road trip and will opt for an ICE car. This has been an ongoing thing with Toyota PHEVs too. 3.3Kw charging unless you opt for the Limited and pay EXTRA for the technology package just to get 6.6Kw charging. By the time you can get the faster charging, you're looking at a $48k car.
The ID.4 is probably the best value you can get in an EV. For the price of $42k-$52k (effectively $32k-$45k after incentives) , it has the longest range (240-280miles), fastest charge (11Kw), most usable cargo capacity (30-64 cu ft), and the best features that really matters. The design is an evolution of classic VW design. There's nothing that shouts "look at me, I'm trying to be different!", but that ok since it speaks to the conservative side of me.
The ID.4 is probably the best value you can get in an EV. For the price of $42k-$52k (effectively $32k-$45k after incentives) , it has the longest range (240-280miles), fastest charge (11Kw), most usable cargo capacity (30-64 cu ft), and the best features that really matters. The design is an evolution of classic VW design. There's nothing that shouts "look at me, I'm trying to be different!", but that ok since it speaks to the conservative side of me.
What confuses me is Toyota already builds electric cars!
They might be cars saddled with an ICE power train, but that only means they're immensely complicated electric cars.
Straight EVs should be a cakewalk for them.
Why Toyota would enter this segment half heatedly, I have no idea. It will just sully their name and cost them money. It will have no significant impact on the worldwide transition to electrification.
Maybe they're taking the gamble that nobody will care about charging speed, and what they save in component and warranty costs they take as extra profit.
They might be cars saddled with an ICE power train, but that only means they're immensely complicated electric cars.
Straight EVs should be a cakewalk for them.
Why Toyota would enter this segment half heatedly, I have no idea. It will just sully their name and cost them money. It will have no significant impact on the worldwide transition to electrification.
Maybe they're taking the gamble that nobody will care about charging speed, and what they save in component and warranty costs they take as extra profit.
Or maybe they'll use them as negative influencers on the lot. "Yeah, we've got an electric car here. It sucks, though. You should buy a fossil-fuel car, like this one over here!"
Think I'm wrong? What about the name? That is DEFINITELY chosen to drive people away.
Think I'm wrong? What about the name? That is DEFINITELY chosen to drive people away.
Joined
·
22 Posts
There's nothing wrong with the Toyota's powertrain. It meets the modern day minimum for the size/ weight of the car. But, when you only allow the car to charge at 6.6kw, it detracts on the pleasure of owning a pure EV. They are banking on the typical Toyota buyer knowing nothing about EV's to save a grand on the cost of the car. I'm just disappointed at the slow progress the Japanese makes are making on EV's.
That's what I'm getting at. 150 kW charging requires oversized inverters and connections and robust cooling, and of course ups the liklihood of battery problems, or at minimum warranty claims. So it just seems to me they're playing this conservatively, but at the expense of marketing a car many people won't want to buy.
Joined
·
1,172 Posts
It probably sounds amazing in Japanese. LOL
The biggest appeal of the ToyoBaru EV is that it is basically a full BEV version of the RAV4 Prime. Even Redline Review mentioned how much it drives like it.
The Prime is a non-fuss SUV. Everything just works. It's Toyota reliability on steroids. I'm still on various RAV4 forums and the number of problems reported is almost zero.
The ID.4 has enough ground clearance that I can't see owners wanting to switch to the bz4x/Solterra though but it might make a good second EV for commuting and short-trips.
The Prime is a non-fuss SUV. Everything just works. It's Toyota reliability on steroids. I'm still on various RAV4 forums and the number of problems reported is almost zero.
The ID.4 has enough ground clearance that I can't see owners wanting to switch to the bz4x/Solterra though but it might make a good second EV for commuting and short-trips.
Joined
·
2,173 Posts
Yes Toyota is very reliable.
BUT
Name one development, function, design that they released first.
I mean that the latest developments always come from German car industries and are only adopted after the first year problems.
That way I can also make a reliable car.
Toyota buyers treat cars like appliances. They are rarely innovative and always seems to use last decade's technology. They are the leaders in hybrid drivetrains though... extremely efficient and reliable.
I had ZERO interest in buying a Toyota and only wanted a Prime because my Mach-E Standard Range was too little range (211 miles) for the bi-weekly trips I was making and I still wanted an EV mode. I did not know that the Prime was basically a 302hp monster that's about as fast as a base Model 3. The infotainment system was crude and controls belonged in a 10 year old car... but everything just worked and nothing ever glitched. I have faith the bz4x/Solterra will be reliable and be one of the few EVs that last 10+ years... even though the EV is a bit underwhelming spec-wise.
Joined
·
1,172 Posts
How can an ICE be more reliable than an EV?
At a very basic level I admit I don't understand this, either.
I rationalize that gasoline powered drivetrains have been refined over generations and are at peak design efficiency now – honed to balance manufacturing costs and reliability, complicated by ever tightening emissions and fuel consumption needs.
EVs, while simple, are trying to find balance: reliable, cool, lightweight, inexpensive, repairable vs overbuilt and complicated. They're great until something goes wrong. I bet that gets mostly worked out in just a few design generations.
Yet still – ICE has frigging explosions and heat and vibrations and oil and pulleys. I mean, wtf, they're all bombs how are they so stinkin' reliable?!?
Joined
·
3,484 Posts
Keep in mind that it’s only in the past 30-40 years that reliability, efficiency, and safety of ICE cars has really been refined to the point where people don’t think about it much anymore. And it took about 70-80 years to get to that point where it felt like every generation of new designs was making major improvements. Now, ICE drivetrains are pretty much at their pinnacle, and it’s unlikely we’ll see them made much more efficient or reliable. And with investment dollars flowing away from ICE R&D, it certainly won’t make further major improvements any more likely.
21 - 40 of 56 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
